I Can't Do This Again
"imo there's absolutely nothing wrong with highest map costing 5ex, if we're talking about rarity. you also don't have to buy the maps. you can run lower maps for a long period of time- you know, the grinding part in a grinding game. similar how to people grind 10+ tables of micro stakes at the same time in poker to have an edge. but nooooo, that would probably be beneath you, wouldnt it ? |
|
" I've solo SF grinded my way into top tier maps in all softcore leagues so far. I love to grind. Grinding makes sense when you feel the progresson, and stops making sense when you are going around in circles & outlevel + outgear the available content to the point of boredom. The progression balance is totally messed up in 2.0, where even my crappy SF geared char in Warbands has completely outleveled the content available to him (circling in 72 - 74 maps, with odd 75 that usually drops nothing). Because now content is even more gated by luck and not by: difficulty / gear / skill / knowledge. Previously in 1.3 getting to highest content was too easy, yes. But the promise that in 2.0 gameplay difficulty (map affixes) & boss kills will matter more for progression (something I was looking forward to), did not materialize in my experience (and considering all the negative feedback around, its a general case too). There is even more RNG variance in content access than before (something that imo doesnt fit a "hardcore" game, hence the QQ). When night falls She cloaks the world In impenetrable darkness Last edited by morbo#1824 on Jul 20, 2015, 3:16:36 PM
|
|
" I think you're confusing progression for grind when you say you love to grind grind is (overwhelming majority of time) mindless repetitive easy task. in the poker analogy, you get small net gain for every session and in the end you're gaining some money. in poes case you get xp, slowly yes but surely as well. what you want is a constant risk/reward progression that just isnt meant to be in this game, really. I also dont know if there was really a promise re 'progression'. pretty sure GGG thought to hinder 'progression' at high maps. highest maps can no longer drop cartos, zana dailies have been nerfed in map level nearly to the ground, and the +2 changes basically means no extra very good maps from magic/rares/rogues. |
|
" Grinding is done for the purpose of progression. There's no point in grinding something if it only leads to stagnation. Stagnation isn't fun, and one could easily describe the current map situation as stagnation. " Well it's a good thing we have the official GGG representative here to clear things up for us. IGN: WeenieHuttSenior
US East |
|
" I grind for the sake of the grind, and its fun to me. let's not speak for everyone, eh ? and, you can still progress, if you want. its just much, much slower. which is the definition of grind anyway. 1% xp per map is a grind. running faceroll content going through the motions, is a grind. playing tough mods in a tough map isnt a grind. its more exciting, sure. is it a grind? no. " funny. are you aware that your posts are funnier when you're being facetious then when you qq ? |
|
let's look at first definition of 'grinding' I could find:
Grinding is a term used in video gaming to describe the process of engaging in repetitive tasks during video games.[1][2] The most common usage is in the context of MMORPGs like Realm of the Mad God, Tibia, or Lineage [3] in which it is often necessary for a character to repeatedly kill AI-controlled monsters, using basically the same strategy over and over again to advance their character level to be able to access newer content. MUDs, generally sharing much of the same gameplay as MMORPGs, often feature grinding as well. Grinding may be required by some games to unlock additional features such as level progression or additional items. if you are required to run 60 level 72 maps in order to finally get some progression, then its (you guessed it) grinding. there is never 'too much' grinding, by definition that is illogical. if there was such thing as little grinding, it would not be grinding. |
|
Though I WOULD point out that if massive "grinding" is MANDATORY, then we see the big issue with grind: it's an ARTIFICIAL game-length extender, to make up for having any real content to cover that area.
An example of grind that was especially problematic pre-2.0: leveling to 100 just required repeating the EXACT same mapping: get a 6-man rotation group, and everyone alted Palace maps for +packsize, then regaled; the other two mods would be inconsequential to any 6-person party. Lather, rinse, repeat. That didn't add any real gameplay at all, so that's why that strategy was obliterated with some of the map changes. However, what we're seeing here is a side-effect: a method to get rid of one kind of unwanted grinding has instead spread this grind to OTHER levels, which is really bad. An RPG is actually not sustainable if it relies on grind for the bulk of its content: this is why, as they age, virtually all MMOs have to implement various means of quickly advancing and such; those that stuck with the "yeah, you'll have to repeat the same 100 hours of grind because we were too lazy to make real content" schtick have all seen their userbases evaporate. " You just contradicted the VERY definition you posted to try and prove your point. As soon as you repeat a task with nothing new required of the player to think or react... It's grind. If a SINGLE repetition happens, it's grind, because the player just, well, repeated a task. Rufalius, hybrid Aura/Arc/Mana Guardian | Hemorae, TS Raider | Wuru, Ele Hit Wand Trickster
|
|
(Content) grind cannot be looked at alone, but in context of your character progression (char level, gem level, gear). If you outgear / outlevel the content available to you, yet there is still harder content you are RNG blocked from, then it does mean there is too much (pointless) grind. Ideally as your char progresses, you should progress also through content (difficulty). This ofc tops at the absolute end, which is top tier maps, when you are done with grinding content - your char has beat (or at least seen) everything, you can now reroll or continue to grind for other things (gear, more XP, etc..).
My Cycloner is lvl 89 with all his gems at 20 quality already & lvl 19, yet I haven't seen ~half the maps available and still circling in 72 - 74... this is messed up progression, imo. How long it should take, in hundreds of hours, to see / beat all maps available at least once? Without using insta-gratification trading ofc (I could afford it, but it would not give me that much satisfaction as looting) When night falls She cloaks the world In impenetrable darkness Last edited by morbo#1824 on Jul 20, 2015, 4:44:15 PM
|
|
" And actually you WONT be able to afford it if everyone is forced to trade in order to buy high level maps. Prices will skyrocket! When maps don't drop, prices also go crazy - so the net result is people really won't have access to this content at all, even if they're willing to trade. We're all in this leaky boat together, people.
|
|
There are so many ways you could fix all these issues. And there are issues for sure. I am not as badly stuck as some others (also bought 5 lvl 75 maps the other day), one reason being that I found a +3 map (Zana map +1, boss drop +2 yields a 78 from a 75). But the randomness is discouraging and not fun.
One easy solution to the randomness would be this: - remove +2 drops completely, boss or otherwise - remove +1 drops completely, boss or otherwise - make the boss have a guaranteed drop of a map of the same level - make white maps drop zero maps other than the guaranteed boss drop and give difficult maps a chance to drop more - to incentivize players to play hard maps, give hard maps an experience bonus on top of the +quantity / +rarity mods (the packsize is a really good start here) That way, players can decide what they want to do. Either play hard maps and hope for additional map drops or just play easy or even white maps. Once you get three maps of the highest level you currently own you get to trade them in for the next higher level map. Progress. And incentive to kill the map boss. You could iterate on this by giving the boss a chance to drop a +1 map, or making the boss drop two guaranteed -1 maps which you then have to up-trade or something like that. Lots of options to make a sustainable map pool and a more rewarding and somewhat more deterministic game experience. There are other ways to fix the problems as well, I like the 2:1 uptrading vs. 3:1 uptrading idea for example. Thought about that before as well. But something should be fixed. I also dont like the fact that I can never run white maps very much. It would make for some relaxing gameplay sometimes. It is just feeling bad if you do it with 74+ maps. EDIT: As for buying maps, on poe.trade there used to be a bunch of 80+ maps available, now there are zero maps with b/o offered (two 82 maps are available but don't have prices, I guess they are 10+ ex each). Remove Horticrafting station storage limit. Last edited by Char1983#2680 on Jul 20, 2015, 5:37:33 PM
|
|