Incident Report for Item Loss Bug

No socket items?
Uniques missing mods?
Wow. Those would go for a hell load from collectors.

Yeah I even mailed GGG about what happend when I logged in to CB and then back to Live server... Characters switched. I even encountered wrong password and shit and got totally paranoid... I've never had a virus on my computer...

GGG just responded that this was normal... So yeah, while it's normal let's just delete some items while ur at it eh? I don't understand why GGG want to fuck every bit of reputation on 300+ items they lost due to noobing around with the "staged" closed beta hype that is dying day by day, week by week, eventually month by month..


This is the worst thing that ever happend in GGG's story, this thread needs 10000 + replies.. Get it in ur head and stop beeing so passive...

Very happy this was a bug...I though i accidentally sold my unique for scraps somehow.

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prilletime wrote:

It's very unprofessional... " We can't restore items " Probably because of the TOS...

Like seriously wtf... doesnt even add up to behave like this and try to act professional about it..

It's like pooping on ur customers.. What you are saying is pretty much we can restore MTX because you payed for it, but we can't retrieve your lost items because you had to suffer to find them, theyr gone now and we dont really care because according to GGG ToS they can just screw everything up..

Change mentality plz, when you manage to do stuff like this to people it's bad PR!


I did not lose any items, but I got a feeling after this post they might just log into my account and throw some stuff away, maybe a mirror of kalandra or all of them, just to have fun with their power abuse.

Hm...so many things wrong with this.

1. They said they literally couldn't tell weather an item was deleted by the player or the bug, and items missing mods or having no sockets will sell for a TON Also the reason they can restore microtransactions is because they can't be deleted except by the bug, so if they got deleted, then something wrong must have happened.

2. GGG would never do that you should know that.

3. You're sort of a (Removed by me), aren't you? (I removed it myself so support you don't even have to bother :)

Lost my 6-link Windripper and all of my 5-link Chests on this bug.. -.-'

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ghost8686 wrote:

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Serleth wrote:

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InfiniteMonkeys2 wrote:

The fact that this is present in the TOS doesn't invalidate the fact that refusing to restore items lost directly due to a bug you created is total bullshit. Also, accepting TOS doesn't mean shit in the EU (because nobody reads them anyway).

Just because you don't read them doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

Just because they exist doesn't mean they matter.

It matters, otherwise it wouldn't exist.

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Raycheetah wrote:

Seriously, most of the people posting on this thread to express their "outrage" weren't even directly affected.

Haven't ya'll anything better to do than get worked up over an "injustice" on an online game forum? Plenty of real injustice in the world to apply your energies to. This nonsense just makes y'all look like a buncha goobers. =0[.]o=

Why would people complain about something that won't affect them? According to you, something is wrong with caring about the game? Maybe since people play this game, they actually give a shit about it.

I'm not affected, I'm not mad. But each is free to do his own. If GGG wishes to invoke the "no restore" policy to some extreme end, feel free to. But I can assure you that as consumers, we will respond accordingly. Sometimes I wonder if GGG ever think about PR in the things they say and do.

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JNF wrote:

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bitV wrote:

The fact that GGG aren't sufficiently logging these changes and don't have systems in place to recover says far more than an apology. I'm in software development, if a bug of this magnitude happened to us and cost a customer potentially months or years of work we'd be out of business - The fact that this is a game and not say a different hosted service is of little to no consequence, people invest a considerable amount of time and money into this game, errors like this are unacceptable.

/thread

I would be devastated if I lost either of my 6L Shavronne's Wrappings, because it took me the better part of two years of grinding to acquire them. For the fanboys that say, "Oh, they're just pixels, get over it", they're only humming that tune because they didn't experience such a loss themselves. They're the same kind of individuals that will side with law enforcement beating the shit out of someone in a blatant act of police brutality and say, "son of a bitch deserved it, because he knew better than to fuck with the police", while in the meantime they themselves, a friend, or a loved one gets similar treatment and they'll be the first to squeal "POLICE BRUTALITY!" The worst kind of hypocrites possible.

I work in IT as well and you'd better damn believe they'd be rolling back their servers if they fucked up and let a bug of this caliber go live.

The biggest irony is that the source seems to be from people who were either participating in the 2.0 beta (testing your software for free) and/or recent supporters who donated by purchasing supporter packs. Unbelievable.

As someone that has delt with these exact kinds of bugs and delt with companies where every minute of downtime costs, well, a lot of money, I think people have a bit of an overestimation on what exactly GGG would be able to do in this situation even if the TOS wasn't written to cover this.

To all of the people that say that GGG 'doesn't have sufficient logging in place' to identify and restore items lost to this bug I'd want to point out again that because of the type of bug this is, logging might not make any difference unless you logged every bit of debug logs. Perhaps turning on those kinds of logs helped them find the error after they knew it was an issue.. I don't know for sure. But in general you only have logs turned on that tell you when known error conditions occur on production systems because logging is SLOW. It's so very very slow. In most cases you would probably even put the log statements into a conditional compilation section so that you didn't even have to deal with the CMP part of checking to see if the log was enabled or not. You don't want debug logs running on production servers if you can help it.

I'm not even sure what kind of logs people imagine exist for this kind of stuff. If it's text logs then you might have something like "Item ID 9382938 for player 93829 was destroyed by method 293 at location 9394" which would all be fine and good but if you have a player struct, and inside the struct you have an array of pointers to arrays that contain item IDs, the bug could have simply overwritten an item ID, turning it to 0, making it appear as if a location just 'lost' an item and the next time player struct was synched to the database, the server removes the item that's not supposed to be there. That's a very simplified version but given what we know, that's one way this could happen. It sounds like the bug would cause the server process to crash and that this also caused the inmemory structure that has the Item Deleted information to be lost as well. So you have a bug that could corrupt part of a player struct (as evidenced by skill tree resets and random mod locations being changed on items) and the Item Deleted information being lost as well. The best case scenerio would be looking over past backups and seeing that a player got an object but if the Delete information is gone, you'll never know why it was deleted.

Yeah, I can't imagine vendoring a 6L but it's something you can do as well as vaaling things that might destroy it so there are reasons that someone might destroy an item and if you can't tell why the item is gone it seems like the fairest thing is to just not go back on the TOS and start restoring found items. Also the time it would take to confirm things because I can gaurantee that they don't take full backups since it would be nuts, you'd have to restore incremental backups which takes a long time.

And as stated before, MTX are different as they are cosmetic and don't affect the economy and generally aren't meant to even be destroyable. That's why those are the easiest to restore as it doesn't affect the gameplay, only the appearance of your character. And it's far easier to confirm that they were on a character to begin with and since they can't be destroyed normally, if they are missing you know there's a problem.

Sure, I'd love for bugs not to exist and for things to always run smoothly, but that doesn't always happen and in order to have an operational game on the hardware that's available, it's hard to imagine keeping the terabytes upon terabytes of logs that would be needed per player "just in case" an unforseen bug like this occurs.

It's not a case of GGG being pig headed about something, they literally would not be able to tell if someone lost an item to the bug or a vaaling gone bad or accidentally vendoring or destorying in town in a fit of madness or dropping in a zone that expired. So given that, the only options left would be to restore any items claimed by anyone that had owned one at some time and you know there would be a lot more than 300 people claiming items were lost, or sticking to the entire reason the TOS is written the way that is and not restoring any found items.

Also, saying that sticking to a coporate policy meant to be fair to everyone involved is the same as police beating people isn't quite going full Godwin, but it's pretty close.

@eudaemon69

who needs exact logs?! they know there was a big bug causing the worst shit ever, then they should also roll back.

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eudaemon69 wrote:

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JNF wrote:

/thread

I would be devastated if I lost either of my 6L Shavronne's Wrappings, because it took me the better part of two years of grinding to acquire them. For the fanboys that say, "Oh, they're just pixels, get over it", they're only humming that tune because they didn't experience such a loss themselves. They're the same kind of individuals that will side with law enforcement beating the shit out of someone in a blatant act of police brutality and say, "son of a bitch deserved it, because he knew better than to fuck with the police", while in the meantime they themselves, a friend, or a loved one gets similar treatment and they'll be the first to squeal "POLICE BRUTALITY!" The worst kind of hypocrites possible.

I work in IT as well and you'd better damn believe they'd be rolling back their servers if they fucked up and let a bug of this caliber go live.

The biggest irony is that the source seems to be from people who were either participating in the 2.0 beta (testing your software for free) and/or recent supporters who donated by purchasing supporter packs. Unbelievable.

Also, saying that sticking to a coporate policy meant to be fair to everyone involved is the same as police beating people isn't quite going full Godwin, but it's pretty close.

That's cute. I like how you twisted my words around to suit your pathetic insult. Try re-reading what I actually stated before putting your own twist on it. I was making an analogy about the people who are trying to be dismissive towards others and acting with a very blasé attitude.

I'm well aware of production costs, but there's the option of simply rolling the server to a restore point in which the bulk of the errors took place, which might not solve everyone's issue, but at least the majority who put their trust in GGG to have at least some form of stability with the long term investment of time they've put into the game. I was very near purchasing a Closed Beta supporter pack myself prior to this occurring. Had I not been pre-occupied with participating in the beta, which I am still doing despite the fact that nearly everyone has scurried off to the 1 month leagues, then I likely would be suffering a similar fate as the ones who've lost irreplaceable items. I'm still leery of logging into the live server right now.