A potential change I'm keen to hear your thoughts on

I don't like this change. In my opinion EB is fine as it is now, and all this does is make it way more complicated to use.

I feel like this change is too big a nerf for AA users that don't use MoM. There is zero incentive to get EB now, and a huge amount of mana to take to make it work at high level.

Still, hopefully I'll get to test it out, if AA's cost is changed it could be ok.

why not just make MoM reduce total life by lets say 15ish%

I like EB for the mana/mana regen. You are effectively eliminating the boost to mana regen EB grants, because you think MOM is too powerful combined with EB. can't you figure out another way to fix the problem?

I really like the trade-off EB offers, give up energy shield for a boost to mana regen. That's gone if this change goes through.

Personally, i'd prefer you delete MOM from the game and leave EB alone.

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grepman wrote:

why would you NOT use cloak ?

I personally HATE wearing Cloak. It has a great flavor and I think the legacy chest was beautifully balanced, but in practice the chest is not that exciting. You give up at least one aura/Herald, you run the risk of having your mana depleted by enemy attacks which could deactivate AA when you need it most, and the defenses are not that strong by comparison (Phase Acro + Atziri's Step, Lightning Coil + Saffell's, AA + Phase Acro, high life/regen, high ES/CI leech builds come to mind) unless you give up even more dps (Life Leech + Mana Leech is an amazing defensive combo with Cloak).

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so we and second part I agree on, thats why ondars is getting a nerf. acro already received several nerfs, and acro is 5 points, not one.

Yes, Phase Acro is effectively 5 points if you're right next to it, and players who grab EB most likely grab a bunch of mana nodes on the tree that other characters would ignore, so it's not like we're really comparing 1 node to 5 nodes.

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unlike acro where 5 exact nodes are mandatory, only one node is mandatory and rest is flexible, so you can save on mana nodes by getting regen on jewelry pieces

Sure, you do get flexibility with EB.

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on other hand, show me a caster right now who invests in strictly a lot of mana nodes instead of taking EB?

the problem is when you say mana, tree says EB. if you stack mana and or regen, you HAVE to go EB. maybe I want to make a hybrid toon who uses mana ? nope, tree+cloak say EB.

Oh, I don't know why you wouldn't take EB as a caster (or Acro as an archer/melee character on the right side of the tree or Resolute Technique as a non-crit melee character on the left side of the tree).

I'm interested to see the new EB changes, but the big reason given for the changes ("AA/MoM defense being too high for too low a cost") feels a little misguided to me based on my experience with Cloak, AA, and other defensive options.

Possible to just remove stun all together, would that not help desync tremendously?

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Tempada wrote:

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im able to run a lvl 19 aa without clarity or discipline, due to just 1 single node, EB.

Running a lvl 19 AA without Clarity is not thanks to just 1 node. What kind of gear do you have? Do you take Inner Force? A lot of players find it hard to run a lvl 20 AA (and I mean run it without draining much mana while walking) even with EB + Clarity.

i have a high es chest and helm, and im using voidbringers. together with some mana on my gear too (which i didnt specifically aim for, it just so happened) i have 4+k mana

replace the high es chest (its a 700es splendour. pls its not bis) with a shield (im actually dual wielding wands) with 350+es and es boots, youll be able to do the same

i did not lose anything specifically, and it doesnt make my gear super expensive.



with my current mana regen of 230 (which i could bring to 270 with other gear, and 300 with clarity) i could run a even higher aa. (inner force would increase the mana degen from AA btw)







without eb, i wouldnt be able to run a lvl 10 aa. ofcourse my gear affects it (as it should)

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grepman wrote:

ok, so we're on the same page here- Im not crazy about the implementation either, but we both agree the existing trifecta had to change

oh ya, for sure, it became such a huge go to, in the 1mhc people were selling unlinked cloaks for 4ex, the demand was that high. I feel like such a large portion of the player base was rolling a char who would want a cloak if they could get one, its out of control. Zeno has been ranting about it on his stream for a while, I think a lot of us are looking at the cloak for everyone caster meta and thinking "this is way beyond reasonable".

I dont personally think its op, I just think its a good viable option in a part of the tree starved of viable options. I think the new mana shield idea is interesting to, I dont actually mind it, Id just much rather see it added as an alternative to increase variety rather than replacing one option with another one option. I can see many builds being destroyed and everyone ending up doing 1 thing again, just doing it differently.

If I was GGG id take a good look at continuing what they started with moving towards hybrid life + es being a thing, give a little love to ci via their mana regen options for sustaining high cost spells, sustaining energy shield etc. If they want to break down such a confined meta they need to work out how to give people confidence to use energy shield as a defense in multiple ways. If you give people only 1 viable choice on a realistic budget then thats what theyre going to do.I have hybrid chars, I have ci chars, I know they work but its one thing to say that when you have standard league op gear and another for a semi casual player starting a new league.

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grepman wrote:

and acro is 5 points, not one.

If I saw correctly on stream, phase acro will be 1 point now with that op jewel.

I feel like with acro you want all 5 points, a block notable is like 2-4% block, dodge is better than block (no chance of stun) and the acro improvement 'filler' nodes are 3% and 4%s, all 3 are like a serious block node youd spend travel points for by themselves.

Although, can you now take phase acro without incurring the block, es and armour penalty of the main keystone? Because that would be... ya, about that...