A potential change I'm keen to hear your thoughts on

"

Ashkatar wrote:

So what you are saying is this, a character with 1500ish es (realistically without gimping your skill tree to the point of insanity) will be able to sustain his mana costs of using abilities in the game, with 4% (LEGACY) regen ring, while loosing mana regen entirely meaning he can't for instance use aa on mana, after taking EB? That's 60 mana regen, WITH A LEGACY RING. You offer it as an option? Ok more es, 2500es, 110 mana regen (which would require a very major point investment into es% on the skill tree, as well as 150+ es rolls on gloves, boots, 300+ on helmet, 400+ on chest, 250+ on shield and about 30-35 skill points invested alone into travel/es nodes), you'r saying that sustains spell casters these days? Which fucking rock have you been living under mister theory crafter? You offered us one of the "quite" few things available? thanks, your thing won't work. period. It literally simply will not work. Wana prove me wrong? create a fresh character under these rules - not on standard, make it on 1mhc current race, do not use poe trade for the first 3-4-5 days, reach merciless docks, making a build, around this idea of yours, having a shavronne ring to be able to sustain mana cost of a spell caster, 4l minimum, good luck have fun, idiot.

Reserve all mana (add Vitality, drop Clarity), pick Zealoth's Oath and around 4-5% life regen. Use that ring, have about 2k ES -> ~200+ es regen. It would basically work the same way as MoM/EB already does but you won't get any mana nodes anymore but life regen instead (which is scarce on int part of the tree) and you'll loose all life regen (to ZO) and you won't be able to run AA. Also, it would be a bit complex mechanic for new players which is pretty shitty imo.

"

Ashkatar wrote:

So what you are saying is this, a character with 1500ish es (realistically without gimping your skill tree to the point of insanity) will be able to sustain his mana costs of using abilities in the game, with 4% (LEGACY) regen ring, while loosing mana regen entirely meaning he can't for instance use aa on mana, after taking EB? That's 60 mana regen, WITH A LEGACY RING. You offer it as an option? Ok more es, 2500es, 110 mana regen (which would require a very major point investment into es% on the skill tree, as well as 150+ es rolls on gloves, boots, 300+ on helmet, 400+ on chest, 250+ on shield and about 30-35 skill points invested alone into travel/es nodes), you'r saying that sustains spell casters these days? Which fucking rock have you been living under mister theory crafter? You offered us one of the "quite" few things available? thanks, your thing won't work. period. It literally simply will not work. Wana prove me wrong? create a fresh character under these rules - not on standard, make it on 1mhc current race, do not use poe trade for the first 3-4-5 days, reach merciless docks, making a build, around this idea of yours, having a shavronne ring to be able to sustain mana cost of a spell caster, 4l minimum, good luck have fun, idiot.

I would use it more for a totem or trap type build and I play all leagues including standard so your insecure elitist rant carries little weight.

Once this change is out, I'll do you a favor and prove it is more than viable. And the after that, I'll prove AA and COD without EB are still effective. As for your less than intelligent challenge, some of us do have lives and a job so your BS challenge of jumping into a race with 5 days left means nothing to me.

It is quite clear that your are very angry though, take a few weeks breaths..maybe go lift. It will be ok little sunshine.

Ye sorry quote fails :(


It's actually going to be slightly easier to run AA in terms of you wont need any mana to spend on skills because you'll be using energy shield instead.

Also don't forget items like immortal flesh belt and blooddance boots.

"

CalamityAOE wrote:

"

Ashkatar wrote:

Once this change is out, I'll do you a favor and prove it is more than viable. And the after that, I'll prove AA and COD without EB are still effective. As for your less than intelligent challenge, some of us do have lives and a job so your BS challenge of jumping into a race with 5 days left means nothing to me.

It is quite clear that your are very angry though, take a few weeks breaths..maybe go lift. It will be ok little sunshine.

It's actually going to be slightly easier to run AA in terms of you wont need any mana to spend on skills because you'll be using energy shield instead.

Also don't forget items like immortal flesh belt and blooddance boots.

Think you quoted me, not the angry guy :)

I'm actually loving the thought of a cycloner using AA build with this change. And I agree, but will have to see tree with this change as well. Zealots Oath would make it more practical.

"

Nubatron wrote:

I would use it more for a totem or trap type build and I play all leagues including standard so your insecure elitist rant carries little weight.

Once this change is out, I'll do you a favor and prove it is more than viable. And the after that, I'll prove AA and COD without EB are still effective. As for your less than intelligent challenge, some of us do have lives and a job so your BS challenge of jumping into a race with 5 days left means nothing to me.

It is quite clear that your are very angry though, take a few weeks breaths..maybe go lift. It will be ok little sunshine.

You did't play all leagues, you have only played torment and bloodlines, you have not played rampage/beyond/ambush/invasion/anarchy/onslaught whatsoever and you have only one achievement on domination nemesis, so for one you are already a liar. Two, you obviously never played totems before, good luck sustaining 250-300 a cast totem without "legacy?" EB. Three, there's no point in trying to prove it's viable, i know it will be viable, i personally think that they aren't nerfing mom+aa+eb combination with this whatsoever, it will be easier to have a large mom soak up pool as es now, i already did the maths i could have 3000 es just like that with about 230 es regen to soak up the damage, while being able to hold my incinerate + aa (granted aa and incinerate mana costs will be adjusted as they say they would).

tl:dr i already know this change won't "nerf" mom+eb+aa in the way they want to nerf it, hence i'm saying in this thread previously, it will either be op as shit, or never used, depending on what will be the newly adjusted mana cost values for spells/buffs in this game to account for this change.

What i AM saying, lifter, is that this change, targets a certain, very simple to yet again nerf mechanic, does not achieve that, and nerfs a LOT of builds out there, that DO NOT TAKE EB to use in the combination with mom+aa. Maybe if you spent less time "lifting" and more time using your brain, you would be able to add 1+1 in your head without actually doing it in game play to be able to see how stupid this change really is. And also about a job, i am a licensed actuary working at swiss re london, i have that. I work over 55 hours a week usually, and i don't need to have no life, to understand basic numbers. While you sir, don't seem to get, how to add the weights up when you'r lifting, that must be some complex calculations for you every time you add a few kilos or switch the weights around. That ring, is not an option to sustain es costs, it just isn't, you don't fucknig take either LEGACY or this new proposed EB and use shavronne's ring, or what were those other suggestions, that frigging belt that no one has ever used or better yet those frenzy boots, you don't use those things, you don't need to use those things, you don't NEED to shoot yourself in the foot, to make a run for it with this change.It's incredibly good for mom+eb+aa you mongols. You don't pick a shav's ring, take your mana regen to zero from an easily achievable 150%, than take 5% life regen from the tree, and call it a solution to mana use issues, instead you should put a sign on your head, "i'm stupid".

And just to clarify yet again for those who still seem to be out of the loop on aa mechanics, the current 21 aa, is barely worth about 6k armour. That's it. It's not "op" it's not necessary by any means or important or an opie op life saver against 3k phys hits. It serves barely any noticeable role other than cancel out spell reflect on incinerate, and take titty-ladies+docks dogs out of the picture. That's literally all it does. That's all, all this stories you heard about how good it is etc, it was people just plain bragging without any factual evidence. AA is by itself alone, is no big deal whatsoever. What made it a strong mechanic was stacking all this defensive benefits together, block, mom,aa, flasks. THAN it's good, yes. But AA itself, is not game breaking. Please write it down and remember or something, whichever helps you remember things.

Anf what about using aegis aurora for mana regen ?

"

snakesolidx wrote:

Anf what about using aegis aurora for mana regen ?

Sshhh keep some of the funky theory-craft stuff on the down low man.

Peace,

-Boem-

"

Boem wrote:

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snakesolidx wrote:

Anf what about using aegis aurora for mana regen ?

Sshhh keep some of the funky theory-craft stuff on the down low man.

Peace,

-Boem-

Wish I was a fly on the wall for that theory-craft session.

Hey guys lets take all the sweet block nodes by EB. This way we can get hit and have a chance to gain mana so that we can reliable cast our spells.

Meanwhile in 1.3 people do that with CLARITY!!!!!

Ok, after much debate in here and some really going off topic sidetrains, these are my thoughts for Rory, I hope you are still reading the thread or at least skimming through for the bits between bickering.

"

KieranGravebane wrote:

“AA/MoM defence currently is too high for too low a cost” - Rory

Im a little surprised by this quote, Im not sure I totally agree but maybe. I personally think that AA/MoM is one of the most investment intense and at the same time weakest defense setups of all the builds I play. Thats how it should be, casters have too many benefits and you just need to look how many people are playing casters right now to see that truth playing out. They are defensively weak compared to attack builds, especially non crit and melee attack builds who can just camp at the bottom of the tree and swim in powerful defense mechanisms all day, and thats how it should be.

but you guys want to take it further? Well, ok I can see that, the defensively weak aspect of them is obviously not enough currently to make a lot of players go elsewhere. Honestly, I feel like people just dont understand quite how powerful the bottom of the tree is right now defensively and thats part of the problem, but not one that can be solved without pushing some more people down there I guess? Social engineering needed? lol. Maybe.



I got to agree with Kieran though, if MoM is the problem then nerf MoM. AA is already nerfed to shit, honestly that gem cant take any more of a beating, leave it alone its already shit when it comes to actual defense against mobs. Take MoM down to like 20% or something, that hurts the Cloak too. Zeno is right as well, the Cloak is way too popular, nerf MoM and then move it into the caster tree area where casters can take it. Dont make it harder to run AA, its an absolute nightmare already for a pretty weak defensive skill, if MoM needs hit then hit it with the nerf stick.

Rory if youre out there reading this, and I hope you are mate, people are getting MoM already, theyre using the Cloak, keeping MoM so far away is just making that unique wayyyyyy to popular over rare chests. Nerf the node, give it to casters, break the Cloak dependence situation its out of control.



I actually really like this es mana shield idea, I think its cool, I think there may be cool little builds there and new things to explore, its exciting. I dont think its exciting as the new EB though, Id like to see EB staying EB. If this is about that quote, if its about nerfing MoM and the problems of this Cloak being such a ubiquitous item in caster builds then tackle the problem at the source. Other builds use EB, builds that wont take well to this change and have noting to do with MoM, people take EB and wear a 300 es piece purely to give themselves higher potential mana recovery per second from their mana leech etc like some wanders who arnt even using AA or MoM, just 1 example of many. Do what you have to do to MoM, then stick the keystone in the Templar area of the tree. Add this new es shield over mana crazy idea, give it its own name and keystone, stick it in the Shadow area of the tree. Now people can take EB, they can take EB and MoM, they can take the Mana ES thing, they can do the Mana ES thing with MoM, but its like current EB + CI, you cant do EB + Mana ES thing because EB is removing your ES.

Imo that fixes a problem caused by overuse of cloak, you fix cloak itself and mom by changing mom if you guys feel thats necessary, we get the new mana shield es thing that looks like you guys have spent time working on and does look genuinely very interesting taken by itself outside of the "omg they killed eb" factor, and it can be its own thing without having to bend it to make sure it does what EB used to do, it can be its own special snowflake, set it free and let it go to new places, have fun developing it and then we can have fun bulding with it.


Thats my take.

"

Ashkatar wrote:

"

Nubatron wrote:

I would use it more for a totem or trap type build and I play all leagues including standard so your insecure elitist rant carries little weight.

Once this change is out, I'll do you a favor and prove it is more than viable. And the after that, I'll prove AA and COD without EB are still effective. As for your less than intelligent challenge, some of us do have lives and a job so your BS challenge of jumping into a race with 5 days left means nothing to me.

It is quite clear that your are very angry though, take a few weeks breaths..maybe go lift. It will be ok little sunshine.

You did't play all leagues, you have only played torment and bloodlines, you have not played rampage/beyond/ambush/invasion/anarchy/onslaught whatsoever and you have only one achievement on domination nemesis, so for one you are already a liar. Two, you obviously never played totems before, good luck sustaining 250-300 a cast totem without "legacy?" EB. Three, there's no point in trying to prove it's viable, i know it will be viable, i personally think that they aren't nerfing mom+aa+eb combination with this whatsoever, it will be easier to have a large mom soak up pool as es now, i already did the maths i could have 3000 es just like that with about 230 es regen to soak up the damage, while being able to hold my incinerate + aa (granted aa and incinerate mana costs will be adjusted as they say they would).

tl:dr i already know this change won't "nerf" mom+eb+aa in the way they want to nerf it, hence i'm saying in this thread previously, it will either be op as shit, or never used, depending on what will be the newly adjusted mana cost values for spells/buffs in this game to account for this change.

What i AM saying, lifting dipshit, is that this change, targets a certain, very simple to yet again nerf mechanic, does not achieve that, and nerfs a LOT of builds out there, that DO NOT TAKE EB to use in the combination with mom+aa. Maybe if you spent less time "lifting" and more time using your brain, you would be able to add 1+1 in your head without actually doing it in game play to be able to see how stupid this change really is. And also about a job, i am a licensed actuary working at swiss re london, i have that. I work over 55 hours a week usually, and i don't need to have no life, to understand basic numbers. While you sir, don't seem to get, how do you add the weights up when you'r lifting, that must be some complex calculations for you every time you add a few kilos or switch the weights around.

Reading comprehension isn't your strength is it? The comment was in reference to Permanent and temporary leagues. To help you out, it was in regards to a legacy item that easiest to obtain in Standard and is more than viable in that league. I can use smaller words if it will help.

Congrats on having a job. That does not change the fact that your "challenge" was a no lifer challenge. Getting 200-300 mana regen through tree and equipment is not hard. It is just a mod most people overlook. As for ES being the new battery, well it depends on the build. As I stated above, the ring would easily charge a trap or totem build with minor investment in ES. If I were to go with a more costly build I would go with zealots oath or ghost reaver depending on where I started from and what new tree looks like.

I know what you are saying, half this thread says it and you are part of the "all change is bad" crowd. You are angry because one of the easiest mechanics to use in the game might change and you might actually have to think for a moment of something new.

As for the math, it really is quite simple.....I've supported decent level AA by getting mana and mana regen through the tree and equipment alone. No I did not run level 26 AA but I didn't need to since build was more diverse than one trick pony that can't think outside the common game cookie cutter.

Will being able to run AA be worth it in new meta? I would say fortify is easily a better choice particularly since it works with inner force and stacks with endurance charges. One could argue that AA would be overkill and to costly compared to that choice. But keep sticking your head in the sand and hoping nothing changes. Maybe that will work out for you.