A potential change I'm keen to hear your thoughts on

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BananaJams wrote:

I was thinking about this a little bit and I thought it might be interesting if you "flipped" Mana and ES.

The character would use mana first and then go into the ES pool second.

This way the mechanics of ES actually make a little more sense. Your mana would act as the pool for auras and what not and have the regular regen but if you run out of mana you would dip into the ES pool. Once your ES pool is depleted you would have to wait that recharge time but your mana would be continually regening on top of that just in case you had to cast your skill to quickly get out of a situation.

This way we still reduce the power of MoM and high regen but give casters who do not have leech a chance to utilize both pools more effectively. You would dip into ES only in high stress moments instead of always having a depleted ES pool.

What do you guys think?

Edit - I would support the change if it was like this

I like this idea, this would turn es into a emergency mana pool, the problem the current change would create (as having to wait for your es pool to regenerate to cast means less offense, slowing down the pace to a boring crawl)

And would even work with mom as in if mom depletes your mana (but wont touch es) you can still cast, actually strengthening mom while equally reducing the problem with "oversized" mana pool&regen

This would also mean there more builds that could benefit from this, and actually equally take it from some that used it as a crutch

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maoster wrote:

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Serleth wrote:

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maoster wrote:

what are the options for regening ES? does mana regen apply to ES? because, that would be really really cool if mana is full, mana regen applys to es.

See Mark's comments on Page 15 of this thread.

he doesnt really say, anyway i posted my thoughts, if es is limited to the options we have now for regenning it, i dont think the keystone will be very popular

He does state it, it just requires some inference.

"In all other respects, ES behaves exactly the same - it still has the refresh mechanic, and anything that references ES still applies to ES."

Therefore in order to regenerate ES you will need to either have the Shavs ring or take Zealot's Oath.

Seems like a really interesting change guys :)

So would CI work for this change? I still don't understand.

Rory, I think that you should not touch the mechanics that functions quite well as is. The best way is to first test it locally and then compare results. As an example you can take one of my low level Witch character (char name "Pimperina") which strongly relies on AA for the primary defense and not using CoD. In this example, you can of course try variant with CoD as well. I believe that on the basis of behavior in practice you will see what is the difference between the current and proposed concept.

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Dark_Chicken wrote:

So would CI work for this change? I still don't understand.

Taking CI alongside EB will still leave you with 1 (1.3 with MoM) point of effective HP and thus mean pure suicide.

All this does is stop the added EB "mana" from functioning as such, removing the ability to regen both as one large pool and to leech it without taking GR.

Edit: This is also what I dislike so much about this concept. The idea that EB as a keystone, which is one of the most significant choices one can make, serves basically no purpose unless one incorporates one or multiple other keystones aswell seems artificially restrictive and limiting.

I am not a fan of this change at all. I primarily play totem builds and every one runs off of MP. This is only possible really due to EB boosting my MP pool. My totems are in the range of 300mp per totem and it is not a skill I just plop down with time to regen. My totems kill fast enough to where i need that high regen on my kill speed takes a drastic hit. It is also a huge nerf to my defenses as well as my builds rely heavily on AA.

I am all on board for many changes but not this one

that was a lot to read (27 pages of responses):P lol

I think it's an interesting change that is worth testing/trying out to see how it works.
I'm sure there will some experienced players who will be able to accurately test out this change and report detailed feedback for it.

I look forward to reading/seeing what is discovered. Without actually "playing" with it though... I feel I/we can only really speculate as to how it "feels". There have been some great points brought up so far, and hopefully many more to come.

It looks like a neat change at first glance but the more I think about it the more I think this will hurt build diversity than help it. I also think this change will bring us back to the point where nobody self-casts and 90% of builds are based on attacks rather than spells.

You're treading a very dangerous path here...

In terms of "flavor" this is exactly what should be done. It is brilliant, and now that you've shown it to us, it almost seems obvious.

A shame that isn't what it started out as, because there's a fair amount of people really upset by their inability to sustain arctic armour. I'm particularly fond of arctic armour myself, so I hope there's still a way to maintain a high level arctic armour (>15) without having to spend lots of exalted to pull it off.

It's a great idea though, I hope it gets put into the final 2.0.0 version game. If it doesn't I hope I get the opportunity to test it in the beta ;P

Also, have you guys ever considered splitting up Zealot's oath? What I mean by this is turning it into a 3-4 point cluster with each node converting X% of life regeneration into energy shield regeneration. It could be a 25,25,50 progression scheme. Alternatively, you could put passive nodes behind eldritch battery that would convert or add X% of mana regeneration as energy shield regeneration. I'm not sure if either would appease people since it wouldn't help sustain arctic armour, but I do think it would make the new eldritch battery more appealing.

Even though there's 25+ pages of comments, I have the complete faith you guys will get to my comment :)
Keep up the good work!