[HLD] Elemental damage all forms

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VictorDoom wrote:

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andkamen wrote:

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Take atziri axe

cool sc only solution :/

not exactly, one of the top 10 in eu ladder is from HC and wields atziri axe

bu anyway, a good 2h build vs a good caster/bow is a fucking hell of a fight for 2h because that is pretty much your counter, casters 1 shot so if you get close and stay there long ou will get mashed in half a second, bowers are extremely fast and the ones that use EA are incredibly hard to beat

and versus crit dagger, all of what he types there is bullshit, they need 1 flicker to 1 shot, try fighting rannggey for example as a 2h build. 9k life gone in 1 flicker.

well rannggey using coc spells, thats what kills you not the flicker

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berkshireee wrote:

Alright, kids, today I'll give you all a free lesson in how to beat op 1000000000000 dps crit dagger (mulla prob knows this already, but stick along anyway?) you all love to hate:

Take atziri axe. Get amplify and incr aoe so you have 100000000 aoe. Don't forget your op 20% movement speed helm. Combine that with melee knockback and the only viable melee skill in pvp called cyclone. Thank your opponent for wearing abyssus and as a result, you deal 40% more phys damage to him! Laugh as he tries to get to you via flicker and gets prompty knocked back via either your cyclone or cwdt icewall. When your opponent tries to cyclone against you, just laugh harder because without blood magic, trying to sustain that shit is a joke (soul taker = no shield, go below 10k es?). Besides, you still outrange him by >30% anyway. Oh yeah, don't forget the final step: go on poe forums so you can complain about the 100000000 of dps that crit dagger would deal on you, if only.


And you think 2h has problems against casters/bow? With knockback being so huge you can't afford to not use cyclone, which effectively makes es less, not more tanky (due to using soul taker) than life, due to dodge.

PS: certain semi-viable pvp skills like lightning strike and molten strike require a certain node called point blank. Good luck reaching that as a tanky es char.

As for your experiment with deth, care to make a dagger build to beat my guildie, gutbags? All his gear combined is less than 1/3 of mine or yours. If dagger is so op please make a 10ex build and destroy him, k?

Funny thing is, I'm not even saying dagger is bad. It's great at some things, like insta killing people who make a mistake/lag out for a bit. But when you ignore all the benefits of 2h rt, it becomes an agenda.

Im going to blunt here and just point out that there are currently no high level 1h crit anything (sword/dagger/claw) participating in the ladder. Go challenge someone like Kevshien if you want to see what a high level 1h crit build looks like.

Theres so many things wrong with your post man.... so much misinformation. Can you explain to me how abysus offers any kind of draw backs when you can use Ec,IC,Cwdt setups to completely negate any physical damage? CI builds dont even need to use abyssus to out dps others.

Ec,IC,Cwdt is one of the many reasons Elemental damage is king in PvP right now. You have melee builds like Gutbags who use the phys to lightening gem to convert some of their physical damage to elemental damage whatever isnt converted to elemental damage will either be completely negated or be used against you via molten or various forms of reflect. It wouldnt be so bad if there were an Avatar of Lightning keystone or some way to convert 100% of your physical damage to elemental. As it stands AOF is still the best way to get the most damage out of a single element (using cyclone) so that you can use thing like penetration/ele weakens/flammability.

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VictorDoom wrote:

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andkamen wrote:

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Take atziri axe

cool sc only solution :/

not exactly, one of the top 10 in eu ladder is from HC and wields atziri axe

bu anyway, a good 2h build vs a good caster/bow is a fucking hell of a fight for 2h because that is pretty much your counter, casters 1 shot so if you get close and stay there long ou will get mashed in half a second, bowers are extremely fast and the ones that use EA are incredibly hard to beat

and versus crit dagger, all of what he types there is bullshit, they need 1 flicker to 1 shot, try fighting rannggey for example as a 2h build. 9k life gone in 1 flicker.

Are you for real? He uses flicker coc. My whole point was pure melee dagger. If you didn't know this you shouldn't even be talking about pvp. Leave it to the adults please.

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lllllDethkloklllll wrote:

Im going to blunt here and just point out that there are currently no high level 1h crit anything (sword/dagger/claw) participating in the ladder. Go challenge someone like Kevshien if you want to see what a high level 1h crit build looks like.

Theres so many things wrong with your post man.... so much misinformation. Can you explain to me how abysus offers any kind of draw backs when you can use Ec,IC,Cwdt setups to completely negate any physical damage? CI builds dont even need to use abyssus to out dps others.

Ec,IC,Cwdt is one of the many reasons Elemental damage is king in PvP right now. You have melee builds like Gutbags who use the phys to lightening gem to convert some of their physical damage to elemental damage whatever isnt converted to elemental damage will either be completely negated or be used against you via molten or various forms of reflect. It wouldnt be so bad if there were an Avatar of Lightning keystone or some way to convert 100% of your physical damage to elemental. As it stands AOF is still the best way to get the most damage out of a single element (using cyclone) so that you can use thing like penetration/ele weakens/flammability.

Oh trust me, I know what it looks like. The other day I dual wielded mirrored daggers and I had over 160k dps without any buffs, and lightning pen and block pen on. Still need to land 3 dual strikes on a 2h melee before it's dead, still not happening with that range. Also pretty sure my guildie gutbags destroyed kevshien on several occasions, despite having gear worth ..maybe 1/10 of him? Yeah EC, IC, CWDT is so strong vs having a 500 ES helm. Did you even follow the conversation? If you put on all these op dps uniques like abyssus, maligaro, soul taker(if you're going to cyclone more than 4l as a es character), you end up with 7k es and no dodge.

Also, it takes me a few hours (this is not bragging-anyone with decent gear can do this) to get to top 4 or 5 in ladder. Mostly waiting in queue. If you paid attention I was there just a few days ago before I stopped farming leo. The only build I lose to consistently is my guildie gutbags. Even op coc can be beaten by linked tempest shield+rumis and some rng. Is there a way for me to make a build that beats him? Probably, but his build costs 1/4 mine or less, and my point isn't that 2h is op. Just saying it's not weak by any measure. If you can't see that then you don't pvp enough.

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berkshireee wrote:

Are you for real? He uses flicker coc. My whole point was pure melee dagger. If you didn't know this you shouldn't even be talking about pvp. Leave it to the adults please.

i know he uses CoC, what difference does it make in what damage he deals? he has to get in the same range and get just as many hits to kill you like a normal flicker dagger build would

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VictorDoom wrote:

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berkshireee wrote:

Are you for real? He uses flicker coc. My whole point was pure melee dagger. If you didn't know this you shouldn't even be talking about pvp. Leave it to the adults please.

i know he uses CoC, what difference does it make in what damage he deals? he has to get in the same range and get just as many hits to kill you like a normal flicker dagger build would

Did you follow this thread, or did you just want to come and make some smart comments? Mulla and I were discussing the balance between 2h melee and crit dagger melee. We both agreed that the dps output of coc is ridiculous.

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berkshireee wrote:

Oh trust me, I know what it looks like. The other day I dual wielded mirrored daggers and I had over 160k dps without any buffs, and lightning pen and block pen on. Still need to land 3 dual strikes on a 2h melee before it's dead, still not happening with that range. Also pretty sure my guildie gutbags destroyed kevshien on several occasions, despite having gear worth ..maybe 1/10 of him? Yeah EC, IC, CWDT is so strong vs having a 500 ES helm. Did you even follow the conversation? If you put on all these op dps uniques like abyssus, maligaro, soul taker(if you're going to cyclone more than 4l as a es character), you end up with 7k es and no dodge.

Also, it takes me a few hours (this is not bragging-anyone with decent gear can do this) to get to top 4 or 5 in ladder. Mostly waiting in queue. If you paid attention I was there just a few days ago before I stopped farming leo. The only build I lose to consistently is my guildie gutbags. Even op coc can be beaten by linked tempest shield+rumis and some rng. Is there a way for me to make a build that beats him? Probably, but his build costs 1/4 mine or less, and my point isn't that 2h is op. Just saying it's not weak by any measure. If you can't see that then you don't pvp enough.

I 4-0 guts like 3 or 4 times a few days ago with my 2h marauder. Not sure what he payed for his Disfavor but I didnt pay that much more for my sword. Were pretty equally geared id imagine so I know all about the strengths of 2h. I have less than 45ex invested into all of my gear except for my chest and sword. Despite everything 2h has going for it you are severely outclassed by casters and Crit melee. Even if both sides spend infinite amounts of ex on gear 2h melee can not get anywhere near the damage a caster or crit user can. Hell my counter attacks on my crit char hit harder than my 2h marauder.

Your gimmicks of knock back and frostwall wont always work. I used to use a reave inc aoe knockback with CwDT frostwall build. It works vs people who dont know how to react or dont have the right gear swaps to deal with it but once people get smart they can easily counter those tactics.

I have no idea what your saying about EC IC you can use it with abyssus or a 500es helm or a COE to negate all phys damage. CI chars can easily get 10kes with an abyssus and they can get even more with a COE which is actually a better DPS helm for CI if you have the right gear/tree.

I know Guts paid roughly 40-45Exalts for his Disfavour + at least 20-25Exalts for his Kaoms for the time he got it. The rest of his gear isn't amazing but its good for what it needs to do. Having non legacy Kaoms is a mute point when you have 2-3x the range of any other 2h weapon thus landing that many more hits before someone is in range to hit you themselves. 8k hp is easily achievable and its pretty obvious Disfavour is the end all be all cyclone weapon for obvious reasons. It has the base damage output of a Reaver sword and shit tons of range and since no one has figured it out til now range > raw damage unless someones retarded enough to stand still and try to tank you. I've used increased aoe or no conc effect since beta for this very reason. Out ranging people is priceless and will always net you more damage per whirl if you're smart enough to use it.

As for a dagger that costs less then Guts 2h, I have it. My character combined is less then his axe cost him and I'll beat him. He can use all the gimmicks hes copy and pasted from me i.e quill with coh tc/ice arrow etc..etc.. and I'll just walk through that shit like the terminator and break him 2hits with my suck ass Bino's dagger.

Ultimately my point about being a 1 trick pony perfectly fits Gut's build. Whats he have other then cyclone and rushing people at the start of a match? He has poor regen, poor utility vs casters,trappers or anyone that can hit really hard with crit. That's a universal problem for all 2h though but he amongst all others has only 1 go to approach for every single match up and that limits how far he'll go. He may give other 2h problems due to abusing range but beyond that and perhaps bad bowers he's too fighting uphill battles vs anyone good. Plus is it just me or is it hilarious to anyone else that Gut's is now considered a good 2h? Hahahahahahahahha

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lllllDethkloklllll wrote:

I 4-0 guts like 3 or 4 times a few days ago with my 2h marauder. Not sure what he payed for his Disfavor but I didnt pay that much more for my sword. Were pretty equally geared id imagine so I know all about the strengths of 2h. I have less than 45ex invested into all of my gear except for my chest and sword. Despite everything 2h has going for it you are severely outclassed by casters and Crit melee. Even if both sides spend infinite amounts of ex on gear 2h melee can not get anywhere near the damage a caster or crit user can. Hell my counter attacks on my crit char hit harder than my 2h marauder.

Your gimmicks of knock back and frostwall wont always work. I used to use a reave inc aoe knockback with CwDT frostwall build. It works vs people who dont know how to react or dont have the right gear swaps to deal with it but once people get smart they can easily counter those tactics.

I have no idea what your saying about EC IC you can use it with abyssus or a 500es helm or a COE to negate all phys damage. CI chars can easily get 10kes with an abyssus and they can get even more with a COE which is actually a better DPS helm for CI if you have the right gear/tree.

Yeah you 4-0 him with a mirrored sword, congrats. His axe is worth 1/4 of your weapon. Now try that with a dagger and no cyclone. Yes I know life builds are cheap, which is part of why I think 2h rt is good where it's at. All you need is a weap and kaoms to win.

You say knockback and cwdt frostwall only works against people who don't know how to react. I'm here to tell you you're not playing it correctly if a melee can hit you more than once with a non-cyclone skill. Gear swaps? Like what, kaoms roots? So you mean...losing another 1k+ es and no movespeed/resists, right? Or some 1000ex corrupted no knockback chest?

Yeah you can reach 10k es with abyssus...now what? 2h with kaoms also reaches 10k hp, but it has dodge.


EDIT: @Mulla, yes disfavour has op range compared to 2h sword. Now try vs 1h dagger. If you beat him with a binos I'm not aware of it, will ask him later ingame. Also, although you're probably being sarcastic about the 2 hitting him, I've tested it takes 3 or up to 5 (if he gears against crit) hits to kill him with dual daggers, which will not happen if he keeps cycloning.

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berkshireee wrote:

Yeah you 4-0 him with a mirrored sword, congrats. His axe is worth 1/4 of your weapon. Now try that with a dagger and no cyclone. Yes I know life builds are cheap, which is part of why I think 2h rt is good where it's at. All you need is a weap and kaoms to win.

You say knockback and cwdt frostwall only works against people who don't know how to react. I'm here to tell you you're not playing it correctly if a melee can hit you more than once with a non-cyclone skill. Gear swaps? Like what, kaoms roots? So you mean...losing another 1k+ es and no movespeed/resists, right? Or some 1000ex corrupted no knockback chest?

Yeah you can reach 10k es with abyssus...now what? 2h with kaoms also reaches 10k hp, but it has dodge.

LOL you sure dont read do you? My sword is 760 pdps it only has 4 mods that do anything for my RT build and it sure as hell isnt mirrored. Also everyone knows how good range is... Guts has the 2h weapon with the most range... I thought your answer for everything was "use a disfavor"? But I have a sword with 175 more pdps and less range and suddenly disfavor isnt good enough to beat me?

I was CI crit dagger in 1.2 and people would try to use knockback and frostwall vs me all the time. You can negate knockback with proper gear and frostwall dosnt stop WB or Flicker or any attack that pierces.

Also since your new to PvP ill help you out... You dont need kaoms roots or a 1000ex chest to stop knock back I bought 10 of these at 2ex a piece and corrupted them until I got this one.

Dont even argue with him, never seen him in PvP before. Also a guildmate of mine that had the best ci flicker ever, tried dual dagger this patch and did insane damage, so Ya. Dmg isn't the problem of dual wield, survivability is.