Mechanics thread
" You can get endurance charges using two STR skills: Warlord's Mark and Enduring Cry. Warlord's Mark is a curse and has a chance of giving you an endurance charge upon killing an enemy so it's almost useless on bosses as a charge source, unless they have many followers. The good thing is that the curse gives you life and mana leech too so it's useful even if it gave you no charges. Enduring Cry gives you a number of endurance charges proportional to number of enemies in a (pretty large) radius. The calculation is a bit awkwardly displayed as "X charges per 100 enemies, one charge minimum", saying if X is 10 you get two charges if 20 enemies are on screen and one for everything under that. This skill also makes enemies target you so it's nice for drawing aggro if you're partying with squishy squigglies. Endurance charges give you flat damage reduction that goes on top of armor reduction so it's best having them on characters that already have some armor as charges can further cut damage considerably. Let's say you have 60% damage reduction, with four charges of 5% each that goes up to 80% so you practically suffer only half of damage then you would receive without any charges. You can expend charges via STR Immortal Cry or INT Discharge skill, the first one doesn't last long and the last requires a very specific elemental caster build to be even remotely efficient so it's probably better to just leave the charges on you. Respect your passive skills and they shall respect you in turn. Last edited by raic000#3996 on Aug 11, 2012, 11:54:59 AM
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There's also a Unique chestpiece that grants Endurance charges when you get crit. Not very reliable though.
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How long does an endurance charge last if you don't do something to actively discharge them?
If i read that right just having them reduces damage. |
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Base duration of all charges is 10 secondes, but there are passives to increase it.
And yes, have endurance charge will reduce damage received. Last edited by Kissan#7229 on Aug 11, 2012, 4:21:47 PM
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you sure all charges are same duration base? i was trying to test why power charges had 15% boost and i came to conclusion they started at almost 11 while the other two honestly started at 10.
i don't think the increases are 15% due to power charges working as crit boost, although that is logical. 10.5 seconds +30% =13.65 while 10 +36% = 13.6 i'm likely very wrong and happy to be but this is what i experienced and it seems right XD. -1 cred to me? XD |
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" Well, all time i have used charges they all displayed 10 secondes on the screen, so i figured that they all had same base duration. I can't look at it this week end (not at home), but i will make tests on monday. |
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" like i said, i am very likely to be wrong this time, i just wanted to comment to explain my possibility. |
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" You seem to be subtly complaining about the effectiveness of armor (unreasonably). most merciless monsters in the game (including rares, magics, uniques) do not hit for more than about 1000 physical damage. The most physical damage in the game right now is probably falling rocks, aside from maybe some special aura or double aura monsters in maps lvl 62+. Falling rocks is about 800+ damage (maybe 800-1300) A typical monster hit around level 58 is most certainly around that 240 that you said the game was assuming. Just because armor damage reduction's cap is 90% doesn't mean that you should get 90% cap vs average monster hits — it's designed to work out to be 75%, like evasion or block. The 90% will more-so effect the smaller hits, and that's intentional. Lastly, just the concept of reducing huge hits to 90% is kinda ridiculous; you sound like it should actually be easily possible or something. Why should it be easily possible? the fact that it would take lots of points to get such a reduction makes good sense! If you want to be invulnerable to physical damage just use immortal call (stupid skill). The biggest problem I see with armor is how much it will be stinky poo in PvP where people may often deal elemental damage or huge amounts of physical damage. That could be partially fixable with some sort of PvP damage reduction system though. If you're just complaining that the reduction estimation is annoying why did you write so much about it? Most people know that system is annoying, and it only takes like a paragraph to explain it. Fresh cakes for all occasions. Delivery in 30 eons or less Call 1-800-DOMINUS Remember - 'Dominus Delivers' Last edited by Xapti#6455 on Aug 11, 2012, 10:47:35 PM
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Hm, I'm actually not complaining, sorry it appears that way. I'm showing a small glimpse of what happens when you are OVERcap. And giving a few hints about how it may be possible to tank even bosses that hit for 2500+ damage.
To answer your, "why" question, I am breaking into this subject one step at a time. But I believe that all content in this game is tankable, even without a shield. That's the final goal, to demonstrate various ways you can tank the bossroom on a double-brutus map. Here is where most chime in "you can't". I'm slogging through the mechanics to understand them, so I can figure that out. I am, somewhat, complaining that the character screen is misleading. Although GGG have acknowledged that, and will eventually fix it. It's more that I have begun to understand how to USE armour, and I think the community could use some hints. No, I love my armour. My templar skips ES entirely to stack armour to the ceiling. That'd be pretty counter-productive if I thought armour were bad :). It is, though, a rather complex system. Takes some tinkering to figure out how to make best use of it. " and yet, the character screen is basing my DR estimate on a 400 damage hit (mitigated to ~250) at level 60, which is about right to start farming pyramid. I'm not really interested in how much DR I have against the rank and file skeletons. How much DR I have against a unique with the %IPD aura would be much more interesting to know. Sadly, the character screen can't do that right now, and one of the points of my post is to shed some light on that. " This is where my sad face goes, because my overall goal is to point out that this is indeed very possible - and not only that, easy if you understand the mechanics. I'll try to demo this, assuming I don't die, since I play hardcore. I want to face tank map bosses, but still manage to farm quickly. Now tell me, "you can't do that" - and I'll still keep working on this concept :) Trouble is - according to my calculations, I need about 8,000 armour rating (OOC) to do what I'm trying to do with 6 endurance, and I can't afford determination. With 8 endurance, 3k would be enough, but 8 endurance would gimp my build in other ways that I'm not willing to accept ><. 7 endurance MIGHT be workable. And right now I only have 2,000 armour. 8,000 armour isn't impossible to reach, but it'll take some time. I'm sorry, xapti, but you've misunderstood my goal. -- I don't have alpha access, that was a LONG time ago. Last edited by Zakaluka#1191 on Aug 12, 2012, 12:44:08 AM
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Here's the table.
A complete turtle max-tank character, wearing a shield, with no DPS whatsoever can achieve 20k armour with the best possible gear in this game. It'll never happen, though. Same idea, 14k armour with no shield. A marauder with two Kaom's signs can get 8 endurance charges. It's kind of a gimped build, though. 7 is reasonable for most armour-aligned classes (more difficult for duelist, I think). Still takes two Kaom's signs and some cross-class skilling. I'm sure I didn't COMPLETELY max so the table goes from 2k to 20k.  If you can make it into the yellow zone, and get your regen high with some combination of leech/LoH/Regen, or slow down incoming damage with some combination of elemental statuses, stun, block, evade, blind such that a saturated flask is enough to cover the health deficit.... AND you're flasked properly for it, you can tank endgame bosses. -- I don't have alpha access, that was a LONG time ago. Last edited by Zakaluka#1191 on Aug 12, 2012, 1:40:34 AM
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