[1.3.0 HC] Zaun's Level 100 Blood Magic Dual Crit Flame Totem (Atziri HC Capable, 200k+ shotgun dps)

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Tyranastrasz wrote:

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Duckz wrote:

what do you guys think of the new tree with this build? Specifically how the marauder start has changed some.

For the most part im intrigued by the templar area,which finally allows to not waste points on weapon elemental damage and get juice spell damage nodes.

Celestial punishment is also very interesting and worth thinking about.

In the marauder area im mostly concerned that the easy access to reduced crit damage from mobs has been relocated and not easy obtainable. On the other hand unwavering stance is easier to get now, which probably is worth it as stuns stop one of the most important defensive mechanics of this build: movement.

All in all a marauder start is still subpar in my opinion unless you REALLY want as much health as possible at all cost.

I agree, personally I like the witch start better than marauder. Do you have a tree mocked up on the new one? I feel like I'm struggling to even get 150ish% life in a reasonable amount of points. And I feel it may be too low

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Duckz wrote:

I agree, personally I like the witch start better than marauder. Do you have a tree mocked up on the new one? I feel like I'm struggling to even get 150ish% life in a reasonable amount of points. And I feel it may be too low

This is what i came up with

https://www.poebuilder.com/character/AAAAAgMAghDfsCycSbIC4welQZYFQtD1rrNMswQHOlhVxoPbrJiPRpuh99f60h0Utvr3po5k42oWbzbpJKpmnljlKhOj8lorwBqQVRo47DgnL4KbmjvVpu08ogDhcwSzwGbwH-oY9zJyqayqWfPPfnasggclvN-_Djz2rnhpLKdfPxQglSAtH6KjwfN_xhGWSVHw1ZUuBx7yHWSd6_WP-l3yDkhwUonTcNW1SPPqKgsfQQYjFr8DHgdjy73mgYw2uMo7fA_Ens2nMAHnvJ8UTRiROlJVtcEE-OsUcdl8n8vvDlBHrY0=

Its for level 93 and tuned for my gear, for a fresh start going through the resist nodes at marauder and maybe the fire res/firedmg node from witch area are viable choices id say but should be specced out of as soon as possible.

thats a similar tree that I had mocked up. But when messing with tree, I wonder if just going mana based would work out. Even with troll mantle chest, I would suspect you could still do it and still run a high lvl clarity with aa. Maybe toss a herald on too. 400ish es with eb is decent, but you think you could still spam with totems and stay above 35%? Whats a 6l mana cost for ft? 200 or so?

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Duckz wrote:

thats a similar tree that I had mocked up. But when messing with tree, I wonder if just going mana based would work out. Even with troll mantle chest, I would suspect you could still do it and still run a high lvl clarity with aa. Maybe toss a herald on too. 400ish es with eb is decent, but you think you could still spam with totems and stay above 35%? Whats a 6l mana cost for ft? 200 or so?

Manacosts on a 6l with lvl 23 flame totems is 205 mana if I remember correctly.

Honestly about the Manaversion:

While you might be able to pull it off the real question is what would you gain from using a mana version? Troll mantle basically limits your usable mana to 50-55% to be on the safe side , thats clarity and 1 herald TOPS. Arctic armor has only so much value if you dont have sufficient armor behind it, and that doesnt really make me like it.

There is no real benefit here, beside having probably a little more life for less damage. But that option is there with BM aswell without reserving life for Heralds.
A mana version might require a mana pot aswell which is a big deal, as Running Life flasks, Quicksilver and 2 Diamond flasks gives you SO much more damage.

So while the difference on paper might not be so big, BM just has much more going for it right now I'd say.

Nontheless, I think its possible, so if you want to go with mana EB version it would be possible from what i've heard of some others who tried it.

I guess we can update the Thread Title to 300k now



This is in hideout with 2 Heralds. Vaal haste pushes that to 310k or something along those lines.

With Diamond Flasks we are looking at burst dps of about 850k on non-shockable targets and 1,275m on shockable targets (not that it matters at this point..)


Some Gear update



I think the last thing upgradable in a "reasonable" manner is to get Mirrored wands, swap Proj speed to Empower lvl 4 and presumably use the lvl 21 Herald of Anarchy is the mechanic is similar for spells, as chaos damage usually is far higher then elemental damage and cold damage in particular from Herald of Ice.
Otherwise a lvl 21/20 Herald of ice. Im currently expecting a damage ceiling of about 35-40k~ Tooltip dps with Heralds up in 1.3 and full level 100 passives.

that's some pretty insane damage/gear you got there tyra. Does it seem more like overkill at that dps point? I'm also curious from Zaun, how the kaoms/searing version is. Maybe he's got a vid or something? I think I'm gunna try a mana version the next league, if it fails, should be pretty easy to swap back to a bm version.

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Duckz wrote:

that's some pretty insane damage/gear you got there tyra. Does it seem more like overkill at that dps point? I'm also curious from Zaun, how the kaoms/searing version is. Maybe he's got a vid or something? I think I'm gunna try a mana version the next league, if it fails, should be pretty easy to swap back to a bm version.

You could say that I passed the reasonable amount of investment in an Flame totem character but for me it changed to see what is possible and achievable.

Normal content just melts, as does atziri.
In my most recent run I was even able to shock her clones in the split phase, which threw me a little off.

My current goal is to get to the max gear wise and see how flame totem does in Uber atziri. I think it will be quite decent!


Incase Zaun doesnt respond, the Searing touch/kaoms version is defensive wise very strong. You obviously sacrifice damage, but you reach a point with flame totems where you start asking yourself wether you even need/want more. So Its definitally a decent choice if you want to put the focus on the higher life aspect, as it will be your only source of defense beside CwDT and Resistences.

Flame totems are just very efficient in terms gear and gem and support gem scaling so its hard to make flame totems do "bad" if the approach if half decent and thought out.

With the northward movement of ancestral bond, removal of cruelty crit mult node near blood magic, nerf of mortal conviction, and potential addition of yet another viable herald (a chaos damage herald?) (remember, original build existed before any heralds were added), I think a cloak of defiance version of the flame totem build is gaining merit.

Some of the damage loss from not using infernal mantle will be mitigated by the addition of a 3rd herald. The spec would also be much tankier (much larger effective life pool - could even run AA) and potentially more uber viable.

An example level 95 tree for the cloak of defiance spec (requires a witch start):
https://poebuilder.com/character/AAAAAgMAAuMHpYIQ37AsnEmy0PVBlgVCTLOuszpYVcaD2wQHrJiPRpuh99e2-vemjmQdFMAaZp760rFC8xFxhSoTWOVaK6PykFUaOOw4Jy-Cm-08mjvVpuFzogBo8vAfwGYEs9-KwfOVIC0f2wuCHrjKO3wPxKKjEZZ_xklR8NWVLgce8h1knev1j_pd8g5IcFKJ03DVtUjz6ioLAx4fQQYjFr9h4iaVjDZVS0mx18_5N--Ikycc3CpTYpWycLQMgwlGccDjS1fxs2-edweHE5yk42oWbzbpJKpqQ8BUvOprFwj0Xyrr5H5Z

I'd need to get a 6L cloak of defiance before I could test the spec myself. For reference, I'm currently using the blood magic variant on a 95 marauder, 20k sheet dps (base, with heralds) using:



I'll keep the marauder BM version post 1.3 (which I think is a buff compared to now, mainly due to celestial punishment + elementalist, which really benefits flame totem due to the rapid hit rate).
My 1.3 BM spec, lvl 95, with marauder start:
https://poebuilder.com/character/AAAAAgEAxthYYz389kjEWF8_7w4UIFBH8i8aPmo7ah7SIfJBggfZfBRxJbzfvw48z352rOoY-OuxQvMRcYXAGlnzrKpyqfcykFUaOIKb7DgnL5o7ogDhc8BmBLPVpu08aPLwHyoTWOVmnqPyWiv3po5kHRT60lXGOlismPfXm6GPRgQHg9tMs9D1QZauswelAuNJsiycBUKCEN-wwfOVIC0fuMo7fA_EoqN-WX_GEZZJUfDVlS4HHvIdZJ3r9Y_6Dkhd8ioLcFKJ03DVtUjz6gYjFr8DHh9BYeImlYw2VUu2-uNqFm826SSq

The extra resists from 1.3 marauder path will let me swap belt and boots to gain more chaos resist and a lot of life:


But I am leveling a witch (currently 78), to try out the cloak of defiance spec. Would love to read about the performance of it if someone gets there first.

PS. The problem I have with using blood magic in 1.3 on a witch start is gaining enough life regen efficiently. IMO 1% is just not enough, and if you spend those points as a witch to get it higher, there's very little difference compared to a marauder start, especially if you need more resist in the passive tree.

For a 1.3 blood magic witch, I would probably go with:
https://poebuilder.com/character/AAAAAgMAAuMHpYIQ37AsnEmy0PVBlgVCTLOuszpYVcaD2wQHrJiPRpuh99e2-vemjmQdFMAaZp760rFC8xFxhSoTWOVaK6PykFUaOOw4Jy-Cm-08mjvVpuFzogBo8vAfwGYEs8HzlSAtH7jKO3wPxKKjEZZ_xklR8NWVLgce8h1knev1j_pd8g5IcFKJ03DVtUjz6ioLAx4fQQYjFr9h4iaVjDZVS-NqFm826SSqflklvN-_DjwUcfjr6hj3MnKprKpZ84IH2XzPfnasrY3Yvf4Ktz7GrjwtxPZTpQxfHKd7IP6HEMz4k_JF

Not sure if totem mastery is worth it (compared to grabbing celestial judgement and 2 4% cast speed nodes, but heading to combat stamina seems like the best way to get more life regeneration; you can also go down from sanctity if you need 10 dex instead of 10 str).

Hello Vhlad!

Glad to see someone as invested as me in Flame totems when it comes to Superlategame versions!

Little jelly about your Maelstroem Twirl Diamond ring!

Now lets dive into your Points!



This is highly speculative but Under the assumption the Chaos herald will be similar for spell users as the Ice and thunder one the CoD Version might hold some merit. BM Is definitelly limited in terms oh how many heralds it can reserve untill it gets sketchy. Id go so far to even say that 3 Heralds without empower is allready to much. So the BM version will reasonably be capped at Chaos and thunder herald empowered.

Im also feeling a little uneasy about the long path down to BM now that the crit multi cluster on the way is removed. Replacing the Value of Infernal Mantle would entirely be dependend on the Herald of Chaos values I think. It also might require its own 5Link or a seperate 4link which limits the options of other spell this build requires...

Passive wise it looks on point from what I can say.
I don't have much experience with EB builds so I cant evaluate exactly how much mana, ES and nodes are needed in particular but those you took seem efficient.

On a side note, Any particular Reason you use Rathpith? Difficulties finding another decent wand or a conscious defensive option?

Swapping the Belt is really needed imo, I really dont enjoy Doryanis at all. The amount of life lost for 'just' fire damage which is about at 50% effectiveness feels more then awkward.

Your Marauder Build seems basically fine, its just sad that due to the marauder start its rather diffucult to grab Unwavering stance and Ironwood, which both are excellent but just barely out of reach it seems.


Concerning the Life regen:
For experimentive purposes I tried to play without Regen at all for a decent amount of time and it its possible. This might be due to the way i play but i usually auto click my potions after every pack. The life Regen is mostly noticable during periods of movement where you didnt require to pot or during exensive periods of lightning warping.

Its also noticable during atziri when you have a little breather between phases and can go pass without having to use a Health pot charge.
I'll have to see myself but i dont feel to concerned about the Life regen issue.
Bottom line is that most of the Restoration is coming from spaming pots, atleast in my experience.
I certainly wouldnt go to Totemic mastery just for that reason.
While you do lack Some totem nodes id rather spend those points in Iron wood if anything.



Last comment to the Mana version of Crit flame totems.
A couple of guild mates tried their own approached not so long ago, one of them went the mana route and from what i could tell it works. The fundamental question is in the end only this:
How much damage does one sacrifice for the added benefit of MoM. This is allmost to hard to put into numbers as this is a Playstyle/Character Design choice.
Technically increased Defenses shouldnt be needed but so is damage after a certain point not really a point of concern unless you focus specifically on atziri/uber atziri.

Your Post certainly made me interested in trying a Mana version for the new Temp leagues, I'll have to think about it.

The ironwood node is a little nerfed in 1.3, since it starts with totem duration now (which is IMO a wasted point). You're spending 3 points for 14% faster summoning totem speed, 12% totem damage, and 15% totem elemental resist + 10% totem physical resist. For similar summoning speed but more DPS, it seems more efficient to take 3x 4% cast speed nodes (many are available without spending points to travel, nimbleness cluster and shadow start for example).

For a witch start, if the totems are durable enough without ironwood, I believe there are better options. With marauder start, to take ironwood I'd have to drop: (a) the throatseeker cluster, (b) 3 points at witch start, (c) life. In theory I value these three options more than 3x 4% cast speed nodes (and, hence, more than the ironwood cluster). I'll see how it plays out in 1.3.

Re Rathpith: It's deliberate. I could gain a few k sheet dps with a good wand but once DPS is high enough (20k*5*2 is probably more than enough), it seems better to invest in defence. I may even clear quicker, since block/spellblock/life lets me play a little more recklessly (I also use one instead of a second diamond flask).

At level 95 you gain ~1% XP from a 78 map. If 78 maps are 5:4 ex then every death is an 8ex penalty (and lost time). This is mainly why I choose the shield, and probably why I find the Cloak of Defiance build worth investigating (hitting 100 will be easier). At level 100 it's dual wands all the way (except vs atziri/uber atziri).

Re Doryani's Invitation: I originally selected it for the 1% fire leech (and I do notice my totems healing from it and performing a little better vs certain map bosses with coop health scaling), but it's not necessary at all. With current prices at ~1ex, it's a more budget friendly option than a good rare belt.

Re Life Regen: With 200 cost totems, I find the build really unfun to play in no regen maps. It's very doable but you have to pause the netflix movie you're watching on monitor #2, pay more attention, and be more stingy with totem spamming. Having 1% regen instead of 2.8% would have a somewhat similar effect on gameplay. Lazier players will want more regen (and it helps vs maps with desecrated ground, chaos cloud zombies, poison strongboxes, and other chaos damage over time effects).

Re the COD build: If the new herald is as viable for spells as thunder/ice, I'd probably swap my helm link for another aura set. I may do something with elemental proliferation or curse on hit (with herald of thunder), or stick with empower and throw arctic armour in there. I find that vaal haste + increased duration + assassin's mark are fine in a 3-link, without faster casting or increased aoe, which opens up the helm for whatever (for 1.3 BM marauder, I'll still use it for ice spear power charge gain (which you really only use on bosses, maybe coop, and to break objects)).