(Helping GGG in) Creating a unique item: a breakdown of the breakdown
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Can't wait for the next installment, even if you're not excited. |
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Can totally understand not being satisfied with your purchase if they won't allow something as innocuous level based affixes. While if you want 100% control you have to make something yourself, that does seem rather over-rigid.
As for relevancy concerns, well, it's impossible for everything to be a snowflake and be popular. Only a few items can be top tier, if their stats are static. Observations on the power level matter and how other designs could be used to mitigate it: * Items that are only powerful for the low levels aren't worth it. If I have to dig into another account and play Where's Waldo to find a claw that'll be obsolete by level 10... by the time it took me to finally equip the thing after inventory management, I could have reached level 10 and wouldn't have needed it after all. That's just how it is when it doesn't take hours to level up. * Therefore weapons you use to attack with are very base level sensitive. More sensitive than armour slots, which are more sensitive than accessories. Diablo 2 allowed us to level up the base item. People often bring that up, though I believe last I read GGG isn't big on that. Like how specific items (say Kaikohuru) were balanced around being on a wimpy base. My opinions on that issue range the gamut of "This is a Diablo clone, what balance?!" "You shouldn't use affixes that would be overpowered if they were on a good item in the first place!" and "If it costs a lot to do, they deserve to get a usable Last Resort." On the flipside, yeah I'd use it to beef up in a heartbeat as long as it's not priced to be exclusive to botters and those trading with botters (ie everyone that trades). Would be a very long time before I find an upgrade to that. Meaning, never. Personally a core of the problem is identical to a lot of the other ones: reusing a Diablo 2 system. The only way all uniques would be equipped by someone somewhere, is if the power level of them were randomized to some degree. (But power level is a slight tangent to what the OP is getting at; which I think is someone who paid $1,000 for a specific item should be able to love the item that gets added to the game. Honestly it feels like the insistence that _every_ single unique gets multiple art sets is a bit beside the point, when it comes at the cost of limiting the number that get implemented and customer satisfaction with mechanics. Diablo 2's uniques looked exactly the same as normal items and no one cared.) In the specific case of Infernal Mantle, I think it benefits from sharing a slot with a tier 1 item. It's behated, but by god, people know that the eyeball suit exists when otherwise they wouldn't. Hatred is a lot better than cold apathy, and the Mantle trolls people in a way quite different than a Sidhebreath or Icetomb. That feeling that the game is mocking our poverty is quite important and under-appreciated a little honestly. And I pulled out my own flood of .txt for no reason. Sorry about that internet. " I'd imagine the Goddess herself will appear as your pet and render the entire screen illegible from the polygon clipping issues that will ensue due to her massive size. If you know what I mean. (I mean boobs.) Last edited by LimitedRooster#5890 on Jul 24, 2014, 11:10:04 PM
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Thanks for the read Charan.
Glad to see I'm not the only one frustrated with the unique making process. Regarding my current unique, I've confirmed the affixes with Rory 3 months ago and have heard nothing despite chasers. Ok fine, I did get an email saying "I think it should be a leather belt base item". I'm glad that took 3 months to figure out... ah well. Good thing I'm not in a hurry. EDIT: And on Dyadus, I'm bitter-sweet about it. I felt a little rushed to have it out for release (so perhaps, my fault) and I probably could have done a better job at ensuring higher utility. Also felt a pre-release nerf to the item was unwarranted given how the item's usage in game has turned out. The flavour to it, however, was absolutely what I wanted Last edited by dlrr#2847 on Jul 25, 2014, 12:40:34 AM
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" Will this fit in the sig box? Everybody should put it. |
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"In the general case, we consider level-based affixes to be about as far from innocuous as possible. We have a general rule against them, for good reasons, which we are specifically and explicitly allowing ourselves to break in a specific case, under certain specific conditions, while being aware of the consequences, and still keeping the general rule in effect for regular items. While I can appreciate how that would seem disappointing to someone who tried to get such affixes on a supporter item and was told "no", we have specific reasons for that being against the rules, and we also have the flexibility to allow ourselves to break our rules if we have to when appropriate - this isn't just us randomly changing our mind. Last edited by Mark_GGG#0000 on Jul 24, 2014, 11:42:35 PM
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" So...what was the reason you broke the rule this time? And why does the rule exist in first place? Add a Forsaken Masters questline
https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/2297942 |
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" Which I don't get since the maximum value is static (Level 100). In the case of a Diablo-style Centaur affix, that basically reads "+0 life at low levels, +70ish life at high levels". The only mark against it is if you wish to reserve the option to later raise the level cap without also scaling up item power. I guess on the ground it's hard to appreciate how long it takes you guys to modify the battleship. When a game project is run by just one guy, changing a number takes minutes. I imagine there were several hours and moderate fistfights involved in the discussion on how to modify the Bringer of Rain.. |
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" At the very least, my flavour text is intact. I think I sent it to you. Post-mortem will be coming sometime soon. |
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I wish I had found this thread earlier. This was a very interesting read and I feel like I'd like to share some thoughts about my experience when I designed my unique. It was not back in closed beta, but was from the open beta supporter packs so it's a lot newer than some of you.
This might be a very strange view for me to take, but I feel like I cannot relate to any of the frustrations that your post talks about. Was my experience the exception rather than the rule? Right off the bat I had asked Rory to add me on an instant messenger and we brainstormed ideas back and forth, sometimes for hours. I really found them to be enjoyable experiences. I approached creating the item as something that would be timeless, which is basically, unaffected by meta-shifts by making the item specifically force you to build around it. At the same time, it had to give you something that would ALWAYS be relevant. The best way to do that is to make your unique give you some form of survival since that will always be relevant. Back then, mana was largely a useless resource outside of aura reservations and having enough to spam your primary skill. All I wanted my unique to do was to make mana a resource you cared about. I had most certainly not started this with "mana shield" in mind, but came up with the idea in one of our brainstorming sessions. There was some distortion over whether it was actually possible to code or not, but eventually we found out that it could be done. To be honest, I found Rory gave me huge latitude in what my item could have. He was extremely willing to work with me and discuss possibilities and how certain affixes would end up affecting builds and such. If I ever find some of my old chatlogs, I will post some of the crazy ideas we had thrown back and forth. Of course, what ended up happening was settling on "mana shield" and the numbers were up to them. A couple weeks before the unique was to be released, I was informed that GGG liked the affix we developed so much they wanted to make it a keystone. If I have any regrets, it was that making it a keystone took away the uniqueness of Cloak of Defiance. However, how many supporters can say they designed a keystone for the game? So honestly I cannot complain at all. To be able to affect the game on a level like that was certainly more than I expected to do with my little unique. If I remember correctly there have only been 2 uniques that have spawned a keystone (the other one being Ghost Reaver) so it certainly felt special. Outside of this little nitpick, I was extremely happy with the end result. I'd like to think the community has enjoyed using both my unique and the keystone. Indeed, I have seen more than a few builds utilize one or the other. Perhaps it did help that I study game design as well. I took a very involved approach with each and every mod and made sure they were what made sense. I was never told a simple "no" or made to follow some invisible rulebook. I genuinely felt like I was simply brainstorming idea after idea with Rory until the best one stuck. Do PM me or reply to this if you have any thoughts on this matter, because it is extremely shocking to me that many people have not had the great experience I did while I designed my unique! Last edited by Hrishi#0000 on Jul 25, 2014, 1:49:56 AM
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"After reading your whole post, this made me laugh so much... I have been pretty happy with my two uniques so far, thought I take more of a backseat in designing it than you probably did. If I tried to design my unique with the meta in mind I think things would turn out pretty terribly, what I design my uniques for is a particular playstyle / build rather than designing something insanely powerful. Timeframe is probably the most disappointing factor, thought I am pretty happy right now since I actually have my forum avatar. I actually had bigger plans for my heartbreaker than were implemented but I think that is either on hold or not happening, which is fine with me, the unique still fits very well with what I wanted out of it. My 2nd unique is still on its way & I have plans for it to be as interesting as my last one, apart from being dissapointed by how long it takes to get done I dont think they can make me unhappy. I still have particular points that I would never give up on like you talked about near the end, but in my view this doesnt have much to do with what mods are on the item, but more about how the unique feels to play with. You all will probably hate me when I tell you this but when the final list of mods came out for my heartbreaker it used to have +% Increased crit damage multiplier, and I made them switch this mod to +Mana. Personally I am quite happy with this, and I think it makes the unique fit with my design ideas much better than before, but it would have made my unique insanely powerful (and likely nerfed) if I had let them leave it with crit multi in it. Last edited by Metronomy#6891 on Jul 25, 2014, 1:49:42 AM
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