(Helping GGG in) Creating a unique item: a breakdown of the breakdown

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andkamen wrote:

is there some list of who created each unique? I know the wiki sais that about each unique but I cant be bothered clicking on each one individually :P

Third section.

On the subject of unique design..Bronn's Lithe takes the grand prize for best designed 3D model. Who can complain that it costs 1 - 2 chaos regardless of the league and looks so badass. It looks badass on any female class as well as the shadow.

Man, I have more Bronn's Lithes than I do any other unique in the game. I make it a point to buy multiple on every league.

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Lyralei wrote:

On the subject of unique design..Bronn's Lithe takes the grand prize for best designed 3D model. Who can complain that it costs 1 - 2 chaos regardless of the league and looks so badass. It looks badass on any female class as well as the shadow.

Man, I have more Bronn's Lithes than I do any other unique in the game. I make it a point to buy multiple on every league.

Actually first time seeing it, gotta agree it does look badass, might do a leap slammer eventually cause I think the thing needs at least some attempt at love.

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Hrishi wrote:

I feel like it's extremely hard to design a weapon that will always be relevant in the years to come (extremely special mods like Soul Taker notwithstanding) because the game HAS to move forward and there are always going to be bigger and better swords. In order to design a timeless weapon, you pretty much HAVE to come up with some sort of defining affix that will stand the test of time, and that's not easy!

An example of this sort of mod is the one on Terminus Est. Forget the fact that the weapon is used very little, the mod is extremely special and defining to the weapon. I remember one of my first characters used Flicker Strike along with Terminus Est to Flicker Strike forever!

Cloak of Defiance will (hopefully) have the chance to stand the test of time because of the unique way it interacts with the game on a plane that nothing else does (besides the keystone, of course). What I'm trying to say is.. it doesn't matter how much more health characters get, or how much more armour characters are given. A mod that allows you to use mana to take 40% of the damage you take will always be semi-relevant. It might not be the best, it might even be underpowered, but it will have a purpose.

Romira's Banquet is another example of such a unique. Even though it wasn't designed for this purpose, I think it will always be relevant as it's one of the few ways you can make Cold Snap your primary skill. Even if Cold Snap is weak, or underpowered, it will have that niche place.

This is my advice to people who are hoping to design something new, I hope I made some sense in the midst of all my ramblings. I certainly had help because I study game design and found it a lot easier to do this, but honestly anybody who plays games should know enough to design something cool :D

While I'm inclined to agree with you, I honestly feel that with how volatile the game balancing is in this game, I wouldn't bet on a defining affix necessarily standing the test of time. I could totally see GGG removing the mod on Soul Taker down the road, or removing a mod from a different unique, if they feel so inclined. They are so bad at seeing how ridiculous gear is before releasing it that I could imagine a situation where they totally gut something after release. But maybe I'm just too pessimistic.

But I do agree on a basic level, that going for interesting mods that can't really be numerically altered is more likely to have a lasting impression on the game.

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Lyralei wrote:

On the subject of unique design..Bronn's Lithe takes the grand prize for best designed 3D model. Who can complain that it costs 1 - 2 chaos regardless of the league and looks so badass. It looks badass on any female class as well as the shadow.

Man, I have more Bronn's Lithes than I do any other unique in the game. I make it a point to buy multiple on every league.

Ooh. Never seen that one before. Looks awesome!

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Charan wrote:

I've provided so much evidence to the contrary, and I haven't even mentioned Lioneye's Glare yet...

The biggest game breaking uniques have almost all been internally designed, so you'd do really, really well to stop drawing lines between custom designs and the notion of 'OP' uniques.

See, you seem so insistent on finding evidence that is consistent with your argument. Auxium, Voltaxic Rift, Aegis Aurora, Rise of the Phoenix, Alpha's Howl, Bino's - all of those made it through as well, as final drafts. I don't know the exact ratio of supporter to GGG contribution on these and perhaps they are not quite as ridiculous as Soul Taker, but the point still remains: AA allowed you to tank indefinitely, RotP has messed with the state of max resistances and subsequently skills like Righteous Fire, Alpha's Howl has certainly contributed to the difficulty GGG has in balancing auras, and etc. You say that the status ailment situation is fragile, but what about the aura situation? The max res situation? Every item added that is as impactful as these will contribute to the mechanical bloat that you are so concerned about. Of course at $1000, maybe you deserve to do just that, but that is why your complaints seem inconsistent to me.

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The limitation of expression between us and GGG is solely about the custom design process. It's about communication.

Communication within the GGG offices is *not* a strong point, and that is reflected in the communication required between a few of the devs and dozens of custom designers at once.

Fair enough. But I have not disagreed with that point. At least not directly.

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I hate to pull this card on you, but what experience do you have working with GGG on item design? Moreover, why are you so adamantly rejecting first-hand experiences of those who have?

Again, you're looking for evidence consistent with your argument. I don't have first-hand experience. That's why I'm playing devil's advocate, because many supporters are so emotionally invested in this that they might be failing to see the bigger picture. Don't get me wrong, if I had an item going in, I'd want to make damn sure I was perfectly satisfied as well and I'd probably be right there with you in your appeal. It's easy for you and many other supporters here because you are so conscientious about the impact of your item, but you're forgetting about all those who haven't posted, all those who want to break the game.

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That probably sounded much more pithy in your head than it looks to me. This game has grown (beyond their control), GGG has grown (but not as much as PoE needs them to), and I need to as well (...what is that? Some poorly-veiled claim that my complaints are immature and unwarranted?)

It's strange that you say this, since you seem to have taken it far more maliciously than I intended. Let me clarify. You keep hailing back to the good old times when GGG could invest so much time with designers. They are past this point - they have grown - and (I think) the game is better off for it. It seems somewhat selfish of you to believe any content updates should be stopped so that all supporter items can remain relevant or have a meaningful impact. But again, I say 'somewhat' because I know how much you have invested in this game and I know you will pull that card on me. I haven't invested anywhere near as much as you and so I apparently don't deserve to comment.

Fundamentally, I agree with most of what you have said, but at least consider some outsider perspective. If only to improve your own argument. Of course your complaints are warranted, I found them as insightful as anyone else in this thread. I just think you need to remember this game has to keep growing bigger to remain competitive. And sometimes that means making sacrifices.

...I should add that the current build of Unleashed is badass. Inasmuch as a 2handed one-hander can be. With that unique condition, you're losing *so* much -- block chance, 6+ off-hand stats, attack speed. I am painfully aware of that. Tipua Kaikohuru pulled it off with ease because of that ridiculous damage increase and attack speed. The slight evasion chance was a leftover from Roped Armguards and isn't THAT slight at low level. Once you get Tipua/Bound, you're just carving through shit with no regard for safety.

Scorned should do the same, but there are already signs of trouble as you move through Cruel. I pondered a number of appropriate defensive measures, like leech, added life, more evasion, all those. I think at the time fire leech didn't exist and I didn't pursue it. I think I figured also that by Cruel, you should be handling your own leech via gems and other gear. The sword exists to do one thing. It's sort of your responsibility to ensure you're still alive to do it.

Unleashed has a bit of each, but mostly I'm very conscious of what it means to wield a 2 hander in Merciless. I fear cheese like ST but the reassurance is that if someone is going to ST, they're going to do it with more ST-appropriate weapons like super fast rapiers/daggers. On the other hand, if that's the modus operandi of 'melee', then *any* way of wielding Unleashed may be seen as inferior. I'm really not sure.

Either way, if we forget balance and the meta-game, Unleashed is done for me. Her synergy with Flame Whip...sorry, Surge has me extremely excited.

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Charan wrote:

Unleashed is done for me. Her synergy with Flame Whip...sorry, Surge has me extremely excited.

Will I be able to craft her in this new expansion?

Zahn - thanks for the vote of confidence :) maybe if i get a third unique i might try that route, but for now i'm quite tired with thinking about the second unique and how long it's taking.

one thing i've come to realise, which i never appreciated prior to doing this, was how difficult and tiring it is to come up with a cool, and interesting unique. It's one thing being creative, it's another being creative within the many constraints in the game :)

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Lyralei wrote:

The problem with mid-design balance is a matter of insider information. Because you are not privy to such information as a unique designer, it becomes difficult to just sit there and accept with no questions asked.

You know that there are concerns, but you don't know why and that causes a rift in communication by no fault of anyone. Its a catch-22 situation where they cannot disclose material information and you need to know why your unique is being adjusted or not accepted.

Personally, I know a hell lot more than I'm supposed to know, some of it with economic value. But not every diamond supporter out there is going to not take advantage of the little insider information that they're given hence the noticeable reluctance to discuss even remotely minute changes to the game.

Very much with you on this. It sometimes feels like we're crafting in the dark when we receive rejections with reasons that are not made known to us. Heh.