Spectal Throw is not in line with melee
" Does cleave create a particle effect inside a hitbox that moves itself away from your character (not one that starts at your feet and rolls its effect through a premade hitbox that reaches a small distance away from you without moving itself)? As far as I know cleave just drops a non moving hitbox at your feet, so... that makes it melee edit - the misnomer being calling something like flameblast a ranged attack, when its a line of sight based direct distance AoE attack... since it doesn't actually fire a particle that can be evaded or blocked by terrain. Last edited by Jiero#2499 on Jun 17, 2014, 6:53:58 PM
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" i don't know what the theoretical max aoe on cleave is, but i'm willing to wager it's on the order of half a screen or more. if that drives my point home |
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" This is a great point, though the existence of LW+Red.Duration as a 2L has kinda crapped on this balance point. With L20+ LW and a 20+/20+ Red. Duration, you can actually hit instantaneous travel (though the Int requirement for the high level LW usually limits the ability to do this on every character, and you'll want cast speed to go even faster and keep up with WB). I will say that playing my Dual Striker, being able to Leap Slam into and out of combat drastically increases my clear speed, suvivability, and control in bad situations. It's important for sure, but if it were possible to get the same damage with a ranged solution (and not necessarily need to leap all over the place), then I would go with the ranged solution unilaterally. If Dual Strike didn't have such crazy DE and I were using a more standard 1h skill like Double Strike, the choice would be heinously one-sided. |
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" The AoE reach of a non moving hit box dropped at your feet just makes it an extended reach melee attack, similar to how melee splashed attacks aren't ranged either when they hit their aoe attacks on nearby targets or how two handed weapons vs claw can impact weapon reach. edit - in otherwords, no moving hitbox that acts like as a projectile Last edited by Jiero#2499 on Jun 17, 2014, 7:30:01 PM
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so if i have an attack that doesn't spew particles, but hits everything within 4 screens away every time i swing, it's melee?
shit definition is shit, sorry bro |
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You can get enough %increased AoE to make Ground Slam reach the edge of the screen. That's about as ranged as ranged gets. I don't think your definition is universally true.
Similarly, Freezing Pulse does create a projectile and is a ranged skill, but the effective range is shorter than ST without %increased projectile speed. Food for thought. Last edited by pneuma#0134 on Jun 17, 2014, 7:30:27 PM
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" No, you have a direct aoe attack.. a whole different classification that is neither melee nor ranged if it lacks a hitbox... if its dropping a hitbox at your feet then ya it would be melee and whoever designed that would need fired because the balance is utterly broken because they screwed up the reach. To call that ranged would be like changing the normal attack skill using a two handed sword to hit that same 4 screen range and then calling it a bow that doesn't fire arrows. And really, no projectiles on that attack is like saying your swinging a giant *** sword and hitting stuff with it... that isn't ranged regardless of how far that reaches (it can be broken OP but that doesn't mean its firing bullets). edit - your confusing an attack's reach with it's attack range, which are mechanically different from each other Last edited by Jiero#2499 on Jun 17, 2014, 7:49:16 PM
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well then all you have to do to make cleave ranged is to animate it with some particles sweeping through the path.
you can't define mechanical things based on how they are animated and displayed |
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" if those particles had their own hit boxes and hit stuff on their own (and were able to leave the radius of cleave) then your transforming it into a melee-ranged hybrid AKA lightning strike and that new magma skill or something with cast on critical strike (paired with a ranged spell).. which was already said, and yes having a cleave that casts spark on critical hits (as a example) would make it both melee (for the cleave) and ranged (when the spark activates) at the same time. Cleave and melee splash through is still pure melee (the splash part being a aoe that directly damages them without the need for a hitbox). What you posted is like saying the glowing MTX effect on your sword just transformed it from melee to range.... when it had no in game impact. so far all your doing is strawmanning things based on incorrect assumptions and absurdities. Last edited by Jiero#2499 on Jun 17, 2014, 8:56:39 PM
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" Just to add my 5 cents - Lightning Warp costs pretty much mana, and your build should be able to afford that. You can link it to BM, but still, not every build can do that. For example, low-life or CI builds often cant spam LW. Also, for me, the only difference between melee and ranged is effective attack range, which defines all other differences as well. IGN: MortalKombat Molten Strike build guide: https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1346504 There is no knowledge That is not power Last edited by MortalKombat3#6961 on Jun 18, 2014, 2:17:44 AM
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