Spectal Throw is not in line with melee

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Startkabels wrote:

This topic is about how Spectal Throw is not inline with melee in my opinion.

Please stay ontopic

I play only melee and disagree with crit or daggers or LMP/GMP are disbalanced.

They might be with other builds (like ST).

But again: This build is about Spectal Throw in the light of melee, please keep it that way!

It is all related.
ST with LMP/GMP receives pretty harsh damage penalty, but allows to hit multiple enemies from distance. With "normal" weapon, this isnt OP, as you wont be able to kill/stunlock/freezelock enemies before they reach you. But with OP DPS from dagger+crit investment, you will have enough damage, while being safe.
You see, PoE mechanics dont allow players to stack "too much" defence. No matter, how deeply you invest into defence, hp, block, etc, you still can be killed, or even oneshotted. But PoE mechanics allow players to stack too much DPS, and furthermore encourages that with stun and freeze from crit damage dealt, and with instant life leech. So, the only way to be safe is to kill enemies before they reach you and kill you, or leechtank them, or stun/freeze-lock them. All those feats need only high enough DPS (with crit, of course).
Whole game mechanics in PoE is rotten with lots of stupid imbalances, and i want GG to fix them all.

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You see, PoE mechanics dont allow players to stack "too much" defence. No matter, how deeply you invest into defence, hp, block, etc, you still can be killed, or even oneshotted.

This is false, i have a character that cannot be killed except by dominus palace map touch of god with 4300hp.

(even atziri does nothing to that character)

sorry for off-topic.

I partly disagree with the title,cause spetral throw is not in line not only with melee,but with ranged as well.ST is as much an insult to melee as is to ranged,especially bows.Ando no,ST should not even be equal in power with other melee abilities.If you want strong ranged attacks USE A BOW.

Now moving to the other discussion,about crits and daggers being superior to other weapons and non crit builds FOR MELEEE,facts CLEARLY prove you wrong.Until recently there was NONE crit dagger/claw melee level 100 in ANY league,while there are dozens of axe/swords max block builds.You cannot build an effective tank that uses crits,i have tried it with a mirrored dagger.I do agree that ambushers speed is too high,and should be scaled down to 1.4 attcks per sec,but then again,the problem mainly lies to the fact that low life+onner force+blood rage+enhance gives you 100% inreased attack speed,which is clearly broken.It's like having alost 2 extra increased attack speed gems on you.

It is working as intented,if you wanna go crit,spend shitloads of damage and do the highest DPS,you go with a crit weapon,like daggers or claws.If you want a non crit build,that balances defenses with offense,or is a straight out tank,you go RT with an axe or a sword,and THAT is the most effective way to level to 100 as a melee(i have both a tank and a crit character levels 95 and 96 respectively,so i have tried both).A dedicated crit character,has his damage as his main source of DEFENSE as well,nerfing that down will destroy him.Not to mention that with the current situation,a crit dagger build without atziri;s acuity SUCKS.Claws are better off,but still face problems.

So yeah,while i agree that ambusher's attack speed will be halved,the actual statistics on ladders prove you wrong that crit dagger/claws MELEE characters,can make stronger builds than other weapons.
Here is a thread that i made awhile ago,using actual numbers to prove the broken synergy of lowlife crit ranged,which unfortunately did not get much attentio https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/921344

And Tinko,you of all people saying that crit melee is superior to non crit,i find it weird,cause i have seen your videos,and they were some of the most insane things i ve seen in this game,especially considering that you were not using aegis aurora,if i remember correctly.

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Poutsos wrote:

I partly disagree with the title,cause spetral throw is not in line not only with melee,but with ranged as well.ST is as much an insult to melee as is to ranged,especially bows.Ando no,ST should not even be equal in power with other melee abilities.If you want strong ranged attacks USE A BOW.

Please motivate, why is ST not in line with ranged?

BTW a general remark to everybody: This thread is not about ST being overpowered in any way it is about how I think ST is not in line with melee

Do not start a sub discussion about overpowered content in general!

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MortalKombat3 wrote:

It is all related.
ST with LMP/GMP receives pretty harsh damage penalty, but allows to hit multiple enemies from distance. With "normal" weapon, this isnt OP, as you wont be able to kill/stunlock/freezelock enemies before they reach you. But with OP DPS from dagger+crit investment, you will have enough damage, while being safe.
You see, PoE mechanics dont allow players to stack "too much" defence. No matter, how deeply you invest into defence, hp, block, etc, you still can be killed, or even oneshotted. But PoE mechanics allow players to stack too much DPS, and furthermore encourages that with stun and freeze from crit damage dealt, and with instant life leech. So, the only way to be safe is to kill enemies before they reach you and kill you, or leechtank them, or stun/freeze-lock them. All those feats need only high enough DPS (with crit, of course).
Whole game mechanics in PoE is rotten with lots of stupid imbalances, and i want GG to fix them all.

This is not about what is overpowered and what is not...

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LSN wrote:

Sweet.

You should notice that the normally utilized support gems and weapons with a skill (which is lmp/gmp + dagger with ST) are inevitably connected with the function of the skill itself and therefore must be considered when rebalancing a skill like ST.

The point is that people miss the point about why I think something needs to be done about ST.

And it's not because I think it's OP. I mean it might be but I don't care at this point. I don't want to discuss whether or not ST is OP with whatever combination of supports and items

And FYI, throughout this thread people miss the point over and over although I have clearly explained and wrote a very short and clear OP.

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Boem wrote:

This is false, i have a character that cannot be killed except by dominus palace map touch of god with 4300hp.

(even atziri does nothing to that character)

sorry for off-topic.

IC + 85%+ lightning resistance and you should be 100% safe with ToG there :P


@Poutsos

Crit melee is definitely superior, sadly I couldn't pull that off effectively in that part of the tree, as it lacks those insane crit nodes, so I chose to get a sword.
And there you go, 24k DPS with a 537 pDPS sword in a 5L setup.
I went overly defensive, but even if I didn't, I couldn't reach anywhere near the amount of DPS that crit daggers provide.
If I ever start playing as a melee again, that will be a crit dagger Shadow. The left side of the tree is "forcing" you to take RT, which gives way less DPS than crit, plus the 1 charge on crit flasks are... balanced.


Anyway, to stay on topic and move on, the whole idea of Spectral Throw and how it came into being... Unbelievable, a simple - fuck you melee.
So I would prefer to have it either severely nerfed or removed.

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tinko92 wrote:

Anyway, to stay on topic and move on, the whole idea of Spectral Throw and how it came into being... Unbelievable, a simple - fuck you melee.
So I would prefer to have it either severely nerfed or removed.

Exactly, it's like fixing melee by making them ranged.

I think rangers are pussies and want to be melee with AoE damage.

Instead of introducing ST, GGG should have balanced certain AoE skills and nodes to make AoE damage for melee builds more inline with AoE damage of casters and rangers.

And they need to introduce more AoE options for melee. Reave and Molten Strike were ok, but more of these are needed and also more synergies

Or maybe reduce the need for AoE damage by having smaller monster packs.

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Or maybe reduce the need for AoE damage by having smaller monster packs.

This pretty much, this game offers 0/zero/No benefits for single target characters/skills atm.