I know more people that left because PoE is easy.

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Raoe wrote:

Numbers don't lie.

Yes, they do. (Watch until 11:20.)

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Worldbreaker wrote:

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Jojas wrote:

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If you find a single $100 bill, it is a much better feeling than finding a $50 now and $50 later.

No.

If you find a $100 bill you go: "Hey, I found a $100 bill! Now I'm $100 richer. Smiley!"

But if you find $50 now and $50 later you go: "Awesome! What are the odds ... !!?"

Finding $100 is just that. Some poor sucker lost it, you found it. End of story.
But two $50 in a row? That's a day to remember.

Not exactly, because now you know the odds are doubled, so when you find the $50 your going to expect another $50, because in the back of your mind, that should've been $100.

You won't go "what are the odds?" Because you will immediately say "Oh yeah, doubled it"

Seems to be the problem of the analogy. It just does not work that way.

But what you say is a matter of perspective. I (and I'm not alone) much rather find an abundance of different, usable uniques, because I love having lots of alts with lots of different builds, and I love finding uniques that make me want to start a new char, just to have a go with them.

And I (not alone) don't care at all for the rarity of uniques being related to their market value. If the market is going to be saturated with mid-tier uniques of which I might have multiple instances, rendering them basically useless - that's just life. You can't have it both.

Casual difficulty vs hardcore difficulty is all an illusion an relative.

Imagine an alternate parallel PoE where everything is much harder 6L, drop rates, xp gained from a content etc.

If they saw our *hardcore* version PoE they would tell "lol casual scrubs, trashed down stupid game", and then almost immediately they would jump to our universe to make an account in our version :D

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Raoe wrote:

And yes, the numbers don't lie.

People do.

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symban wrote:

Casual difficulty vs hardcore difficulty is all an illusion an relative.

Imagine an alternate parallel PoE where everything is much harder 6L, drop rates, xp gained from a content etc.

If they saw our *hardcore* version PoE they would tell "lol casual scrubs, trashed down stupid game", and then almost immediately they would jump to our universe to make an account in our version :D

I am getting so sick of people acting as if drop rates have anything to do with how hardcore or casual a game is, because they don't. Take a casual game and decrease the hell out of the drop-rates, and you have a no-life casual game; take a hardcore game and increase the drop-rates, and you have a fast-paced hardcore game. (A faster pace is not always better.)

However, it's nice to see someone understands the concept of how increasing or decreasing drop rates doesn't mean shit and won't fix (or, for that matter, cause) any of the game's problems, with the sole exception of players running out of content sooner (which, given how difficult it is to get perfect items, isn't a huge concern anyway). Simply put, it's a complete dead end in terms of actually improving the quality of time played, and instead deals solely with lengthening it.

Idk really:

Too easy: play hardcore, self-found do maps underleveled. Stop using alt+f4 and /oos macros. Alch all white maps. Do only unid maps without tping out ever. Get +300% iir, do maps with own timer (say 10 minutes per map).

Too hard: find a casual guild to chat with, go trade to raise 50ex, go read some guides, drop some iir and get some life nodes +hp items. Skip overtuned content. Go softcore. Wait till op items drop in price level other char. Find friends to carry you cause you're awesome guy.

Why quit seriously. Too hard/easy are not reasons in the game you can tune for yourself.

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symban wrote:

Casual difficulty vs hardcore difficulty is all an illusion an relative.

Imagine an alternate parallel PoE where everything is much harder 6L, drop rates, xp gained from a content etc.

If they saw our *hardcore* version PoE they would tell "lol casual scrubs, trashed down stupid game", and then almost immediately they would jump to our universe to make an account in our version :D

We had that alternate universe, we called it closed beta.

I am calling the current implementation of the game easy, heading towards casual.

But to your last point, with all of the handrails and training wheels added since open beta you would think more people would make an account in the "easier PoE", but if you take a look at this Steam Graph...

I forgot, steam graphs only convey people who leave over "difficulty".

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Also, at which point of my post did I ever said GGG cared about the numbers?

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And yes, the numbers don't lie.

By saying this you imply that they care. Else why would you post it?

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Neither did I said anything to op (just want to let him know that there are more numbers quitting because of the game being hard than easy). My comment was "I know more people that left the game because is hard" seeing that everyday there is always a player writing a feedback about the game difficulty.

[removed by support]


And yes, the numbers don't lie.

More people left because it was too hard (for them). In the end, game is marked as "hardcore", right? So, your point being?

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Worldbreaker wrote:

This is probably why I felt drawn towards the idea of a competitive SFL. Nothing boosted just even across the board.

I agree things can be bought and sold, but it was much more difficult to trade before the indexers, now very little effort is required. I also kill my own bosses and link my own gear, the gear I link is gear I find, not buy. Indexers should be limited to make trade require effort since grinding it yourself will always be less efficient, even if more gratifying.

To your last point, the reason I came here to PoE was because they weren't targeting the wider audience, the reason I've stayed despite the issues in the OP, is because every other game is targeting the "wider audience", well that audience is only so big and with other games competing for their business it's only a matter of time before they move on to the next big thing.

I'm definitely for taking away (some) power from trading and putting it (back) into H&S aRPG-ing. There is a lot of things (eternals, mirrors, endgame map system...) that mostly serve the purpose of fueling the economy.

There is no aspect of the game, where those who don't trade can beat traders. Absolutely none. Everything one can do through playing the aRPG, a trader can do 10x better, more efficient or faster. Now if this was some tycoon monopoly game, it would make sense, but it's a freaking aRPG.

Trading is an instant gratification mechanic designed for the "wider audience". Thus one can argue that PoE was always meant for the "wider audience". The current economy cannot be sustained (other than trough botting & RMT), without this wider audience selling off their exalts & eternals to the guys sitting at the top of the pyramid. ie. if you want to sustain this type of economy, where the majority of players forgo certain aspects of the game, you need (to retain) casuals. To retain casuals you need to make the game easier. IMO, it all comes around back to the design premise that "economy is the most important thing".

I think that for a real hardcore aRPG experience, trading should be severely limited and economy should not be "the most important thing". More options should be given to the player to achieve goals through H&S / (real) crafting / questing... Maybe in paid leagues (if they ever come)

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

I am getting so sick of people acting as if drop rates have anything to do with how hardcore or casual a game is, because they don't. Take a casual game and decrease the hell out of the drop-rates, and you have a no-life casual game; take a hardcore game and increase the drop-rates, and you have a fast-paced hardcore game. (A faster pace is not always better.)

However, it's nice to see someone understands the concept of how increasing or decreasing drop rates doesn't mean shit and won't fix (or, for that matter, cause) any of the game's problems, with the sole exception of players running out of content sooner (which, given how difficult it is to get perfect items, isn't a huge concern anyway). Simply put, it's a complete dead end in terms of actually improving the quality of time played, and instead deals solely with lengthening it.

I agree with this in concept. There is an implicit progression/power curve that GGG build around or toward. Boosting drops without, say, eliminating trading is simply moving that curve as Scrotie suggests. Similarly, nerfing trading (eg SFL) without boosting drops does the exact opposite. Neither good nor bad, that's subjective and ultimately Chris' call.

P.