[1.1.5] Kenzorz Crit Glacial Cascade Witch (updated for 1.3.0)

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Kenzorz wrote:

I am heavily against people using knockback with this skill, but somehow I forgot to write about it in my guide. Knockback is a noobtrap for this skill, you do not need to obsess over it when the skill already pretty much guarantees at least 2 hits and scales very well with other stats like crit and cast speed.

and my guide specifically states against Added Cold Damage, you'll get more DPS from any other support. Even Cold Penetration would be a better.

I just can't imagine this skill without knockback, for solo play anyway. In party the knockback totally desyncs everyone and gets very annoying.

From my testing I've found knockback to be a substantial damage increase and it also provides a lot of survivabilty. I have a 50% chance of hitting them 10 times instead of 2 times, that's substantial! I'm using a Q20 lvl 16 knockback at the moment.

As for added cold, as I mentioned, I was only using it because I couldn't color my chest right. My new chest has correct colors:



You can see the gems, but to save a mouseover:

GC+LL+KB+Added Lighning+Added Chaos

The added lighning doesn't seem to shock as much as I'd like, so I'll probably replace it with concentrated effect once I get AOE above 30% or so.

As I'm progressing into maps, I'm finding the CWDT+PCoC+Ice Spear+Ice Spear to work better and better as the mobs do more damage. I found dual ice-spear to be more effective than ice spear + (GMP/Chain). Also, I got hard to roll colors on my helm and don't want to re-roll them :)



On a side note, running high-level molten shell+life leech+faster casting+ele prolif is sorta funny with 6 powercharges and the added AOE from divinarius and tree.

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Smodab wrote:

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Kenzorz wrote:

I am heavily against people using knockback with this skill, but somehow I forgot to write about it in my guide. Knockback is a noobtrap for this skill, you do not need to obsess over it when the skill already pretty much guarantees at least 2 hits and scales very well with other stats like crit and cast speed.

and my guide specifically states against Added Cold Damage, you'll get more DPS from any other support. Even Cold Penetration would be a better.

I just can't imagine this skill without knockback, for solo play anyway. In party the knockback totally desyncs everyone and gets very annoying.

From my testing I've found knockback to be a substantial damage increase and it also provides a lot of survivabilty. I have a 50% chance of hitting them 10 times instead of 2 times, that's substantial! I'm using a Q20 lvl 16 knockback at the moment.

I'm curious to see this in action, do you have a video? I can't seem to ever get more than 4 hits with Knockback (and unreliably) since my Glacial Cascade AoE is too big. Are you using the knockback nodes at the bottom left of the tree? How is your AoE?

I'll try to grab a video later tonight and upload it for you.


edit: Having some trouble with Vimeo, I'll have to post a video later to youtube instead...

But.... I did some testing. Killing hillock with 4-link glacial cascade:

GC+LL+Added Chaos+Added Lightning

Vs

GC+LL+Added Chaos+Knockback


Over 5 tests each, they averaged 8.2 seconds w/o knockback and 8.4 seconds with knockback. Being a crit build, there was A LOT of variance in the times (6 seconds min to 13 seconds max).

I'd say that perhaps a bit overstated the added damage from knockback. It appears to be no more or less effective than added lightning.

But I still like it for survivability. :)

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Kenzorz wrote:

Good build but you might wanna take note that Acrobatics halves your ES meaning you'll have less mana than you should have with EB.

Yep, I'm aware of that. I'd want to try to use all EV gear anyway, so the only loss from acro would effect discipline. With the fact that I'm running Voll's right now-which halves ALL of your mana instead of just mana from ES-and I'm not having problems with regen, I don't think it'll be an issue.

EDIT: additionally I've discovered that your passives and equip have a nice synergy with crit fire trap. I'll often use Fire Trap-Multi Trap-Increased Crit Damage-Concentrated Effect/Elemental Proliferation to either soften up a tough pack before I go to work with Glacial Cascade or to deal with dangerous reflect/double reflect mobs.

Finally managed to get a video for you. I think my clear speed with GC is rather abysmal; ~20 minutes to clear an easy 66 map is pitiful IMHO. I find the char somewhat fun to play, but at the end of the day it just doesn't compete with my snapshot summoner's clear speed. Not to mention I've also spent 2X on the GC build what the summoner cost...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j1CcZSwa8uI

Highlights:

Exile #1 8:00
Invader 10:30 <--I didn't notice till after it died that Raging spirits can't damage through AA.
Exile #2 14:50 <--this one does enough DPS to show CWDT+PCoC+2xIce Spear working well.
Boss 17:00 <--Decent demo of knockback preventing melee boss from hitting.

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Smodab wrote:

Finally managed to get a video for you. I think my clear speed with GC is rather abysmal; ~20 minutes to clear an easy 66 map is pitiful IMHO. I find the char somewhat fun to play, but at the end of the day it just doesn't compete with my snapshot summoner's clear speed. Not to mention I've also spent 2X on the GC build what the summoner cost...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j1CcZSwa8uI

Highlights:

Exile #1 8:00
Invader 10:30 <--I didn't notice till after it died that Raging spirits can't damage through AA.
Exile #2 14:50 <--this one does enough DPS to show CWDT+PCoC+2xIce Spear working well.
Boss 17:00 <--Decent demo of knockback preventing melee boss from hitting.

My Gear

You might notice the gems missing on the 5-link. They are currently in my summoner's off hand being leveled...

My Skill Tree

http://www.pathofexile.com/passive-skill-tree/AAAAAgAAAv4FLQhnDkgRLxGWFSAWvxg8GNsZhhzcIWAkPCaVJ6kppSpNLOktHy2oOrM_J0CgQsNGcUlRSn1KyEyzTipQMFVLVi1abVuvXfJfKmBLYeJirGNDZ6BtGW-ecFJw1XTtdPF673_Ggh6DCYUyh3aH24hCjDaTJ5M6mZqdo52qnrmnXKxHrH-xkLQMtve31r0nwFHBxcHzwzrKStsL21nbXt0N34TjhOss62Pr5PId8-r56Pyr_MU=

1. Summoners are known to not be costly with gear.
2. You're snapshotting with your summoner too. Snapshotting is strong
3. From the video, it doesn't even look like Knockback is proccing much for you and even if it does, you still get at most 2-3 hits anyway? Even on the big totem you only managed to get at most 3-4 hits per cast (I can get 3 hits on Kuduku without knockback). Why do you insist on using it still?
4. I'm not sure what you expect from your clear speed when you build completely different to my build and start with a different character. Your build is like, only 20% similar?
5. Related to point 4. You have almost 0 spell damage.
6. Related to point 4. You have almost 0 cast speed, cast speed is extremely important.
7. You're a crit build but your critical multiplier is minimal.
8. You seem to be trying to get every stat in the game?

I've tried to make a tree as close to yours as possible. Your tree has almost no damage and you're trying to get every possible stat in the game, I've gotten rid of anything I feel isn't needed. Up to you if you feel like respeccing to this or not, but honestly Scion is pretty bad for caster builds.

Also, replace Knockback with some other support gem.

Btw I think 2 Ice spear gems on CwDT can only proc one of them, you might have more success with this combo using GMP Ice Spear instead of 2 copies of Ice Spear but I'm not entirely sure about CwDT's mechanics.

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Kenzorz wrote:

Btw I think 2 Ice spear gems on CwDT can only proc one of them, you might have more success with this combo using GMP Ice Spear instead of 2 copies of Ice Spear but I'm not entirely sure about CwDT's mechanics.

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PoE wiki wrote:

Multiple spells can be linked to a single trigger gem but if two or more spells are of the same type (e.g.: Cast when Damage Taken - Fireball - Fireball) they will never trigger simultaneously, even if they are not on the same link.

So you're right, GMP+Ice Spear will be better.

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Kenzorz wrote:

1. Summoners are known to not be costly with gear.
2. You're snapshotting with your summoner too. Snapshotting is strong
3. From the video, it doesn't even look like Knockback is proccing much for you and even if it does, you still get at most 2-3 hits anyway? Even on the big totem you only managed to get at most 3-4 hits per cast (I can get 3 hits on Kuduku without knockback). Why do you insist on using it still?
4. I'm not sure what you expect from your clear speed when you build completely different to my build and start with a different character. Your build is like, only 20% similar?
5. Related to point 4. You have almost 0 spell damage.
6. Related to point 4. You have almost 0 cast speed, cast speed is extremely important.
7. You're a crit build but your critical multiplier is minimal.
8. You seem to be trying to get every stat in the game?

I've tried to make a tree as close to yours as possible. Your tree has almost no damage and you're trying to get every possible stat in the game, I've gotten rid of anything I feel isn't needed. Up to you if you feel like respeccing to this or not, but honestly Scion is pretty bad for caster builds.

Also, replace Knockback with some other support gem.

Btw I think 2 Ice spear gems on CwDT can only proc one of them, you might have more success with this combo using GMP Ice Spear instead of 2 copies of Ice Spear but I'm not entirely sure about CwDT's mechanics.

First, I just want to say, I didn't mean to imply at any point a criticism to your build. I was complaining about the amount of support that GC requires to be effective. I think that, especially considering my last sentence, your build is quite impressive!

That said..

1&2) I build a snapshot summoner every league because they are so cheap and powerful, and I need at least one char that can make currency to fund other characters! :)

3) As I said before, it also helps with survivability. I'm playing on invasion, so keeping hard hitting melee rares/bosses away from me is advantageous.

4) Your build is a bit too squishy for invasion, IMHO. I feel I need to pickup more tank than your tree allows.

5-6) Correct. I noticed this as well when comparing to your tree. I ended up shelling out for a 5L Carcass so I could skip the witch area nodes and have taken some of the shadow starting nodes instead. I respec'd 8 or so points and wound up with this.

7) I took all the high-return crit nodes (>25% increased Crit) that are near my path. The only one I missed was the one above templar, to the left of witch. I have crit chance/mult on my dagger and ammy. My only other crit options are ES shield (not enough tank) or Maligaros (not enough crit chance to be worth loosing a +Max life roll).

8) Not sure what you mean? I've only taken 3 keystones (EB,IR,MoM).

Lastly, on the CWDT ice spear, I tested this quite a bit. You can only proc PCoC once per cast. When you use GMP, this means that you get one chance every 440 damage to obtain a power charge.

With 2x Ice Spear each has it's own cool down and damage counter, with the restriction that they cannot fire within 250ms of each other. The result is having two slightly out of sync ice spears firing every 440 damage, ie. two chances per 440 damage to obtain power charges.

Also, when using Ice Spear+GMP+CWDT, only the middle spear is targeted, the rest just fly off randomly. Against large mobs, this is ok-ish, but against bosses it doesn't help.

If you look at 16:00 in the video you can see ice spear going off one after the other, and then a few seconds later it does it again.

I do appreciate your feedback!


Edit: I made a quick video of knockback on map hillock. It shows knockback a bit better; he only hits me one time. It even stop his leap slam. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oeQSabXNTCw

Edit 2: Just finished Q20 my GC gem and I noticed that the Q bonus reads "Area Damage". It affects any damage added by supports, such as added chaos. Totally worth Q20, I think.

Your build is the holy shit man. Followed it pretty closely except for the fact I can't afford a carcass jack. Started with absolutely nothing and this is what I have now.




Not the best gear in the world but definitely the most fun progress I've made with a new character; pretty much ever.
Increased critical strikes does work quite well in place of concentrated effect as I have no carcass I have to say.

Ran into my first Echo Shrine with GC.

Really wish this was a skill gem, multistrike for spells...

It also works on moltenshell, apparently.





Edit: I just tried out your suggestion of lightning warp + ele prolif for shocking mobs, I think it's my favorite part of the build now!

I have lw+molten shell+LL+ele prolif linked in my gloves, the combo seems really cost effective on gem slots used. The increased AOE from divinarus and carcass makes AOE skills sorta silly.

New gears

I made another video, clear speed is alot better now that I took some damage and cast speed nodes like you suggest. Also, carcass helps A LOT.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B4LgM-Lk7Iw