Time for a "Hardcore" 4 month league? Invasion isn't it.

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Psomm wrote:

The standard "Hardcore" league is a ghost town rightly so, it's not worth playing unless you just wanna jag around or test old characters when resets are upon us.

if the default hardcore league is dead, why add another one?

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Psomm wrote:

I'd prefer to play a hardcore version of Ambush. Why? Because it simply seems more "Fun".

Hardcore is not meaned to be 'fun', beside being hardcore (the challenge/competition) itself.

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Mr_Cee wrote:

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Psomm wrote:

I'd prefer to play a hardcore version of Ambush. Why? Because it simply seems more "Fun".

Hardcore is not meaned to be 'fun', beside being hardcore (the challenge/competition) itself.

It obviously is : this is a game.
It's not the only point of it, but it undeniably is one.

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ggnorekthx wrote:

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

I suspect all of this is GGG's way of saying "hey, guys, start some actual characters in the permanent Hardcore league, we don't have many playing there anymore."

Is it working? I have no idea.

I was thinking they wanted us all to play Ambush. Maybe they decided Hardcore isn't the preferred playstyle anymore?

Nah, I really think they want to bump up (permanent) Hardcore League's low numbers from last season, and thus were... liberal... with the experimentation on the hardcore temp league this season.

Makes some sense, if you really think about it. Hardcore players, due to their very nature, reroll frequently, so it's difficult to keep the perm league from becoming a ghost town. If they were redoing it now, Anarchy would have been a hardcore league.

All that has to happen is some fine-tuning of the invasion bosses. I am having a lot of fun in invasion do, even when i got one-shot on 2 chars already.

Most of the bosses can be destroyed once you realize there weaknesses. Some however are
over-tuned compared to a character in the same zone lvl with adequate gear.

Pretty sure it will take another 2/3 weeks to balance invasion fully. But i love the addition of these bosses. Nemesis was really snooze central.

I made a melee char and played till the map device with 100hp implicit on gear (that's roughly 1860hp in act3 merciles)

That feat in itself proves how easy nemesis was, i should have died, in a horrible fashion. Yet i did not, i don't imagine myself attempting the same feat in invasion and that is a good thing.

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Psomm wrote:

Now I know GGG apparently wants something different with this four month league of Invasion. We keep hearing "Invasion" is *supposed* to kill you. *Supposed* to be ridiculously hard, overtuned, unexpected, etc.

The "top" players in "that" league abuse log out mechanics. The so called "Hardcore" league is a joke. Logging out and being placed safely in town removes any and all challenge and fairness. Another reason why I don't play Hardcore and never run Races.

I have to agree that Invasion has been the worst league so far.

I played Anarchy and loved it, even though the size of the content wasn't comparable with current leagues. I played Nemesis and liked it a lot even though I found myself running away from certain Nemesis rares. Now in Invasion I'm constantly skipping majority of the 'extra' content the league is supposed to offer me. I'm not sure if this is because of a bad monster/content design or my own incompetence to predict their abilities beforehand to design a build, but my guess would be the first one as possibly already proven by the patches.

I've heard the devs mention that the bosses all have exploitable mechanics. But I'm at loss when one of them bursts me down in under two seconds when closing in. Luckily my second character has had better RNG not to encounter the worst of them during leveling. Many videos of streamers dying clearly show that there isn't much to do when surprised by some of the bosses.

I think this could have been a really good one week race during the last month of the league when the majority of the balance issues and bugs would have been sorted, and when most mechanics would have been figured out by the community. Just not as a complete new league with a lot of other brand new content.

There are of course many that say that Invasion is the best league yet because of all the dying, and possibly because of all the griefing included. But I'm certain that even those players skip some of the league-only content when playing and will continue doing so until they are ridiculously overpowered.

Also I would argue that the Invasion content would have been as bad in a softcore league or possibly even worse, creating impassable walls for some players/builds; especially when starting maps. In comparison, think 60 new rogue exiles in Anarchy, one in every instance, possibly one or two oneshotting players with flicker strike. So I believe the hardcore/softcore debate is absolutely meaningless when discussing the actual extra content of the league which is the topic in this thread. There has been talk of some lead devs wanting to get back at the hardcore elite with this leagues because of the elite's antics against the softcore players, but I really hope this is not true.


tl;dr Bad boss design, invasion to one week race and not a four month league, pls no kníferino softcorino bros.

I kind of feel the same that invasion is just too much. I like a challenge and I think it's totally ok when "challenge" leagues actually are a challenge and more difficult than the regular hc, but getting trapped and than one-shot e.g. is not a challenge. It adds nothing to the game except of being quite annoying. It feels more like "you die now because the game says so, no reason necessary!".

In my opinion Nemesis was the best hc challenge league so far, it had a good degree of extra difficulty to it, but in general wasn't overly unfair. In invasion the difficulty spikes are game breaking for me. Everything runs smooth, than bam, you dead out of nothing.

Back to regular hc, hope that shit won't make it into future permanent/challenge leagues ...

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Fruz wrote:

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Mr_Cee wrote:

Hardcore is not meaned to be 'fun', beside being hardcore (the challenge/competition) itself.

It obviously is : this is a game.

In the very majority of games in general, there is someone who LOSE. Even more 'worse', in competetive games its like 50% losing, and on "top": against an "engine" you CANT (really) win, its only about time ^^
Some who dont like to lose, (try to) switch to "better" playgrounds...

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Mr_Cee wrote:

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Fruz wrote:

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Mr_Cee wrote:

Hardcore is not meaned to be 'fun', beside being hardcore (the challenge/competition) itself.

It obviously is : this is a game.

In the very majority of games in general, there is someone who LOSE. Even more 'worse', in competetive games its like 50% losing, and on "top": against an "engine" you CANT (really) win, its only about time ^^
Some who dont like to lose, (try to) switch to "better" playgrounds...

And in such games where there is so much RNG, you have another layer of "looseness" ! lol
But that's also because many people have way too high expectations for their time spent ( playing + planing/thinking ) imho.

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xUnseeNx wrote:

I kind of feel the same that invasion is just too much. I like a challenge and I think it's totally ok when "challenge" leagues actually are a challenge and more difficult than the regular hc, but getting trapped and than one-shot e.g. is not a challenge. It adds nothing to the game except of being quite annoying. It feels more like "you die now because the game says so, no reason necessary!".
<snip>

This is how I feel. After many characters that I've leveled up in invasion, and then stumbled upon an invasion mob only to die practically instantly and then clear the crap off the toon, delete it, start over.... I'm going to Ambush.

Last night, I was playing a Marauder and was running through The Climb. Came across some Black Guards and before I could register "well that's odd they aren't supposed to be here", I was bear trapped and struggling to live. I did end up dying (Corrector Draconides). And that was the last straw. I had already started a toon on Ambush and was already enjoying it... so... that's that.

PLEASE DO NOT PUT THIS CRAP IN THE GAME NORMALLY.