What builds are actually better off not starting from the Scion?

Crit dagger scion will benefit greatly over shadows, already made this change long time ago, now my lvl 87 crit dagger shadow is in oblivion.

This is the shadow's build if you want to have some fun converting it to scio, but i already did :p.

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Invalesco wrote:

The only classes that will not feel that are duelists, maras and templar-based attackers, because these builds have more powerful starting nodes than scion and all access her circle of life to get to another class' area anyway. However, this doesn't apply to witches and shadows who are starving for life. CI builds aren't quite in the same predicament, but may still be slightly inferior depending on what you need.

This pretty much sums it up imho. Templars, Maras and Duelists make (or at least can make) better life-based attackers than Scions. And Shadows and Witches make better ES-based builds.
The question is is this a problem or working as intented?
If you want to play a life-based caster or an ES-based attacker, you'll habe to travel a lot and therefore it's better to start as Scion. I'm not really concerned about the Scion being the better choice in those cases.
I'm more concerned about the Ranger not being the better choice in any case.

Life/EB/dagger/crit/flicker strike

http://www.pathofexile.com/passive-skill-tree/AAAAAgYA_5MeGjBUmVcoKrVIsbNtbG177UFTNVVLpn-btYw2JpWH2yLqwzoWv2HinZbo1lYt8-orb5smrH9wUsBRGL2jijIBcNXjhLJEBfmyGQ5IFfDPeqc0naoRlvljOljnVGKsf8ado1bqveYa2wR-JP3VANadJ6l-WcHF_KsFfen-7g6HGVptrGaIQrl8I_ZW-iQ82HaQG4Ie7_D8xadcLOFwVtsLWkhnoLcX3Q1JUY6KmhOHdlz5OJZbr9vUSn2A4dDuTiriXvejKaW2QWJ5WhoV9gAG

I triple dog dare you to optimize it or make it better as a scion....if you CAN...

Ranger is the underdog as usual...

I play a variation of danmaku spec and I have not been able to come up with a better tree with Scion

anything with DW dagger crit and EV is better off starting as ranger, for the simple reason that the scion life cluster takes at least 4 nodes to reach and it's on the other side of the tree from the dex and int sides of the tree where all the crit is

Ranger has one of the best starting for life based crit bow builds. 8 ias, 20% acc, yes please. the eva/life nodes are terrible though. they should have just been plain 8% life nodes.

she also as access to imo, the single best notable for crit based bow builds , finesse. heart of the oak is also stellar for eva based builds without US.

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Invalesco wrote:

The only classes that will not feel that are duelists, maras and templar-based attackers, because these builds have more powerful starting nodes than scion and all access her circle of life to get to another class' area anyway. However, this doesn't apply to witches and shadows who are starving for life. CI builds aren't quite in the same predicament, but may still be slightly inferior depending on what you need.

actually even duelists - if they go for aura passives - are better of starting as scion and moving back to duelists starting areas. ive created/played a cycloner (weird one so dont nitpick it) and knowing that i need these aura nodes and lots of mana (didnt want to use BM gem for 6L cyclone) there was no other option then scion. main difference is how to cheaply get to Charisma/Leadership aura clusters. for scion it is only 4 mid-value nodes. for others it is 6 +eva nodes that might be of no value for some

Any MF Builds that wanna use the MF Flask better start Witch i think.

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Porterhouse wrote:

Life/EB/dagger/crit/flicker strike

http://www.pathofexile.com/passive-skill-tree/AAAAAgYA_5MeGjBUmVcoKrVIsbNtbG177UFTNVVLpn-btYw2JpWH2yLqwzoWv2HinZbo1lYt8-orb5smrH9wUsBRGL2jijIBcNXjhLJEBfmyGQ5IFfDPeqc0naoRlvljOljnVGKsf8ado1bqveYa2wR-JP3VANadJ6l-WcHF_KsFfen-7g6HGVptrGaIQrl8I_ZW-iQ82HaQG4Ie7_D8xadcLOFwVtsLWkhnoLcX3Q1JUY6KmhOHdlz5OJZbr9vUSn2A4dDuTiriXvejKaW2QWJ5WhoV9gAG

I triple dog dare you to optimize it or make it better as a scion....if you CAN...

Your build is marginally better off as a shadow for 1 main reason:

1. You've built up only 216% incr. life, and the life nodes were all along the way to your DPS nodes - which were all at the ranger/duelist area.

However, no intention to critic, 216% incr. life is a little on the low side for a dual-wielding character who doesn't have a shield to boost HP and block chance. Your HP limit is around 4.9k and you'll need great gear to get above 4.6k. I reckon you should be at around 4.2-4.3k HP.

If you look at your tree, you are pretty much at the extreme limit of your %incr. life. If you decided later on that you needed more life and wanted to aim for 250% or so, you'd likely find yourself having been better off as a scion instead.

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Kamro wrote:

Any MF Builds that wanna use the MF Flask better start Witch i think.

The flask nodes are actually very easy to access for a scion that's grabbing deep wisdom anyway, so I daresay that you may not find that as exclusive for witches as Shaper for instance is for scion.

just cause I like this thread