What builds are actually better off not starting from the Scion?
" I hope you're not being serious... Look at the tree I implore you. The scion version I provided you with had only -4 dex not -50 dex. In addition it had +16% increased armor, not reduced. Sure, alright you don't need the spell damage node. Take it away then. Now you have an extra point to spend. Build of the Week 14
The first Righteous Fire/Non-Shavronne's/Shavronne's HC Shameless self-proclaimed theory-crafting extraordinaire and forum crusader |
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Right, I look like a total idiot now, I've pasted you the wrong tree.
And I haven't seen that Precision node, but it was -10 dexterity overall. the right tree But the point remains, that build is not better starting from scion, for me. The difference between those trees is gear dependent, if I got dexterity from gear and lacked mana regen for some reason, I'd remove the dexterity nodes and get mana regen nodes, and the other way around. Agree? |
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My ignite based flameblast templar. Don't need any castspeed nodes because usually 2-3 stacks are enough to burn everything wit ele prolif. Running AA and the 3 purity auras for being pretty tanky even without too many life nodes. Currently lvl 72 in nemesis doing low level maps (don't have anything different). Also still working hard on optiaml gear.
Current tree Final tree Taking the Aura nodes will allow me to run purity of elements additionally to the three purity auras because I won't need discipline anymore --> won't need any res from gear so I can concentrate on +life/chaos res/IIR. Currently doing fine with my 3.something-k HP. I tried to recreate it from Scion before, but didn't quite like what I managed to get. CliveHowlitzer wrote:
I am now too addicted to that feeling of being kicked in the nuts when you die. |
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" Scions start off with +6 dexterity over witches. Tbh, your new tree would be even better as a scion than a witch as compared to your old one. Now, the scion will not just have more mana and mana regen for the same number of points but also have more %life too. (more dex as well). Also, calling your build a 'witch build' was a misnomer. It is actually a templar build, as can be seen by the way you went into the templar area. In fact, the templar version is far far better than the witch version, with +34% incr. max life this time as well as having more %mana and more DPS. It is also better than the scion, which once again proves my point. Aside from templars/maras and duelists who all have easy access to the circle of life anyway, every other class opting for a life-based approach is inferior to the scion. The templar version. Build of the Week 14
The first Righteous Fire/Non-Shavronne's/Shavronne's HC Shameless self-proclaimed theory-crafting extraordinaire and forum crusader |
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" The two versions are comparable Alros, depends on how you see it. This is the final scion version: 9% incr. base damage as a scion but -40% mana regen and -8% radius of skills. However, no offense to your build, but with the tremendous burst damage with flameblast you may want to grab more life. Your final version has 190% incr. maximum life and has already pretty much hit its ceiling. I do feel that the threshold at which Scion becomes much stronger than other builds is at around 210+% incr. maximum life. You may not have many problems yet, but as you continue to level, you may start to realise that scion start would very likely have been much better for you. Build of the Week 14
The first Righteous Fire/Non-Shavronne's/Shavronne's HC Shameless self-proclaimed theory-crafting extraordinaire and forum crusader |
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More mana regen, not sure about that, as I'd have more maximum mana with witch, which also increases mana regen.
Would have 8% increased life, but I'm not going for life, but for ES, which I'd have more with witch. Templar build? So you're saying that when someone enters tree area of another character, the build is now counted as it's of that another character? I wonder what build am I playing with my Duelist, is it Marauder's, or perhaps Ranger's? Because I enter their area. That Templar tree would have more life, but less ES. Must I draw that not everyone wants things that you want? |
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" Funnily enough, I actually did test exactly that on my last 2 chars. I have almost the exact same tree-setup for both, my lvl 80 something scion and shadow. Gameplay wise i don´t feel any difference at all. It all came down to having more defenses less damage early on, for the scion and the opposite for the shadow. IGN: FlinkeKlinge
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" CI builds tend not to feel as much difference as life-based builds. Even for CI builds, casters may find starting from Scion arguably better due to the better proximity of more useful nodes as you level. " This was your tree. This was the scion version I made for you. This compares the stats between the two.
Your Witch build
+264 to Strength
+84 to Dexterity +182 to Intelligence +151 to maximum Mana +234 to maximum Life Evasion Rating: 53 +4 Maximum Endurance Charge +3 Maximum Frenzy Charge +3 Maximum Power Charge 4% Additional Elemental Resistance per Endurance Charge 4% Physical Damage Reduction per Endurance Charge 5% Attack Speed Increase per Frenzy Charge 5% Cast Speed Increase per Frenzy Charge 50% Critical Strike Chance Increase per Power Charge 216% increased maximum Life 8% increased maximum Mana 32% additional Chance to Block with Shields 30% increased effect of Flasks +12% to Chaos Resistance 10% increased Accuracy Rating 12% of Block Chance applied to Spells 166% increased Armour 12% increased Physical Damage 80% increased maximum Energy Shield 55% increased Defences from equipped Shield 3% increased Attack Speed with One Handed Melee Weapons 60% increased Mana Regeneration Rate 46% increased Physical Damage with One Handed Melee Weapons 20% increased Physical Damage with Axes 20% increased Accuracy Rating with Axes Your hits can't be Evaded Never deal Critical Strikes 8% increased Melee Physical Damage +2 to Melee Weapon and Unarmed range +16% to all Elemental Resistances 3% increased Effect of Buffs on You +36.4% Energy Shield +52.8% increased Melee Physical Damage +168 Accuracy Rating 16.8% increased Evasion Rating
Scion
+300 to Strength
+90 to Dexterity +130 to Intelligence +105 to maximum Mana +252 to maximum Life Evasion Rating: 53 +4 Maximum Endurance Charge +3 Maximum Frenzy Charge +3 Maximum Power Charge 4% Additional Elemental Resistance per Endurance Charge 4% Physical Damage Reduction per Endurance Charge 5% Attack Speed Increase per Frenzy Charge 5% Cast Speed Increase per Frenzy Charge 50% Critical Strike Chance Increase per Power Charge 80% increased Mana Regeneration Rate 24% increased maximum Mana 1% of Life Regenerated per Second 92% increased maximum Energy Shield 224% increased maximum Life 32% additional Chance to Block with Shields 12% increased Physical Damage 166% increased Armour +16% to all Elemental Resistances 46% increased Physical Damage with One Handed Melee Weapons 10% increased Accuracy Rating 8% increased Melee Physical Damage +2 to Melee Weapon and Unarmed range 20% increased Physical Damage with Axes 20% increased Accuracy Rating with Axes 55% increased Defences from equipped Shield 3% increased Attack Speed with One Handed Melee Weapons Your hits can't be Evaded Never deal Critical Strikes 3% increased Effect of Buffs on You 12% of Block Chance applied to Spells +12% to Chaos Resistance +26% Energy Shield +60% increased Melee Physical Damage +180 Accuracy Rating 18% increased Evasion Rating I bolded the relevant parts for you. You'll have more life and ES with scion as compared to witch. " This is the templar version I made for you These are the templars' stats. Compare with your witch above.
Templar
+283 to Strength
+84 to Dexterity +133 to Intelligence +106.5 to maximum Mana +243.5 to maximum Life Evasion Rating: 53 +4 Maximum Endurance Charge +3 Maximum Frenzy Charge +3 Maximum Power Charge 4% Additional Elemental Resistance per Endurance Charge 4% Physical Damage Reduction per Endurance Charge 5% Attack Speed Increase per Frenzy Charge 5% Cast Speed Increase per Frenzy Charge 50% Critical Strike Chance Increase per Power Charge 20% increased Melee Physical Damage 32% additional Chance to Block with Shields 242% increased maximum Life 46% increased Physical Damage with One Handed Melee Weapons 10% increased Accuracy Rating 166% increased Armour 92% increased maximum Energy Shield +16% to all Elemental Resistances 20% increased Physical Damage with Axes 20% increased Accuracy Rating with Axes 55% increased Defences from equipped Shield Your hits can't be Evaded Never deal Critical Strikes 3% increased Effect of Buffs on You 12% of Block Chance applied to Spells +12% to Chaos Resistance 24% increased maximum Mana 40% increased Mana Regeneration Rate 1% of Life Regenerated per Second 12% increased Physical Damage +2 to Melee Weapon and Unarmed range 3% increased Attack Speed with One Handed Melee Weapons +26.6% Energy Shield +56.6% increased Melee Physical Damage +168 Accuracy Rating 16.8% increased Evasion Rating As you can see, you get more life, more ES, even more DPS. That's not even considering the other advantages. " No, that's not what I meant. What I meant is that if the build/meta is much better as another class, it should be considered as belonging to that class. I mean, you yourself mentioned that you were a tanky AA build. By meta, that belongs to templar. The way you travelled - from witch to templar and then to duelist indicates the same thing, as because the templar is in the center, that is by right a templar meta, and it is further proved by the templar version being the strongest. And because of that logic alone, your using that build to compare with a scion is invalid because I specified in my op to not include templar attacker-based builds because they would not have problems accessing the circle of life anyway. I can also build a witch ground slammer, travel through templar and mara, get easy access to the circle of life and call myself a witch with 'no problem accessing the circle of life'. That is fine. However, trying to use that 'witch' to provide an argument in this thread isn't really valid. I wouldn't say that when someone enters the tree area of another character, the build is now counted as it's of that other character. It is precisely for that reason which I proposed the joining up of scion's start area, which you evidently read (seeing as you posted in there as well.) " You are first and foremost a duelist. Even in meta, you're a duelist - because the duelist is at the center of your build. Mara to the left, ranger to the right. Build of the Week 14
The first Righteous Fire/Non-Shavronne's/Shavronne's HC Shameless self-proclaimed theory-crafting extraordinaire and forum crusader |
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@Invalesco: Now I see what you meant by "more useful nodes as you level" for the build you posted. I respecced one of my Scions with the same start and similar paths as your posted build and found I could reach the Templar area fairly easily, wouldn't have been possible with my Shadow lolz.
"so you can see who has more PvPenis" - Chris Wilson "Everyone can at least be exposed to Leo's PvPenis" - Chris Wilson Last edited by Kenzorz#6970 on Jan 25, 2014, 3:47:09 PM
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" Yup! that's my problem with the scion's position and its easy access to all parts of the tree. Everyone will feel that their starting nodes are weak (although the shaper notable and the mana regen nodes are as strong as anyone else, possibly stronger even), and decide to build from another class instead. Once players get to end game though and start running out of nodes to pick (as in my case), they'll realise that the scion is actually much stronger due to her ability to access the powerful nodes from other classes - and that is a cause for frustration. The only classes that will not feel that are duelists, maras and templar-based attackers, because these builds have more powerful starting nodes than scion and all access her circle of life to get to another class' area anyway. However, this doesn't apply to witches and shadows who are starving for life. CI builds aren't quite in the same predicament, but may still be slightly inferior depending on what you need. Build of the Week 14
The first Righteous Fire/Non-Shavronne's/Shavronne's HC Shameless self-proclaimed theory-crafting extraordinaire and forum crusader |
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