Iron Reflexes + Leather and Steel

Thanks triagic for your affirmative reply.

Im feeling now more certain about my planed skilltree.

And it's funny. Except for the Evasion/Reflexes and mana nodes, this was exactly the final build I considered! xD

EK + point blank was indeed a skill combo I had in mind.
I just wasn't sure how to support it right.

But with Leechs + concentrated effects it sound's like a very promising addition to my pure meele combat play!

Thank you for your helpful advice!

sword5,

You are looking at just the percentages is why and not the end result. Think of it this way if it was a pure armor piece with same blue attribute of +21% it would still be 242 armor. In the end, excluding evasion gained from level and evasion only passives there is not much difference (if any at all) in having IR or not. But the bonus for going IR without speccing evasion is that you can open up your armor choices and still get the same AR using the same armor nodes you would have, plus it makes unwavering stance really worth it. Now if you happen to put points into evasion, especially if you are starting out as a ranger or duelist since its so easy to access all of them quickly you would reap the benefits of a much much higher armor multiplier than possible with plate.


Tainted,

placing a point into the PB passive frees up a support gem for faster projectiles to add into the mix. not only will it increase the dmg it also adds extra range making up for conc effect's cost. but every point counts just want to make the distinction I was talking about the passive point blank not the support gem.

For those still interested, i made a quick in game test (cost me a bit of refund points), and here are the results:

The way game calculates Evasion/Armor with Iron Reflexes is:

1. Get Evasion, apply all Evasion modifiers
2. Get Armor, apply all Armor modifiers
3. Convert all Evasion to Armor due to Iron Reflex trait.

So, getting Leather and Steel is kid of worth it, but nothing amazing (it wont give you twice the bonus for evasion).

Example:
You have 100 armor, 100 evasion.

Leather and steel gives you +24% to armor and +24% to evasion.
Before Iron Reflexes:
Your evasion will be 124
Your Armor will be 124
After Iron Reflexes:
Your Armor is 124 + 124 (from Evasion) = 248

If you would get Steel Skin (+30% armor) instead:
Before Iron Reflexes:
Your Evasion will be 100 (no bonus aplied)
Your Armor will be 130
After Iron Reflexes:
Your Armor is 130 + 100 (from evasion) = 230

So you need to figure out do you have more Armor or Evasion and go with the bonus that will profit you more.

^^^ Armor passives also apply to Evasion when Iron Reflexes is taken.

Just as TaintedStrike posted the page before

Total Armour = Base Amour *(1 + Armour% + "Armour and evasion %") + Base Evasion *(1 + Evasion% + Armour% + Armour and Evasion %)

This has been confirmed by Marc_GGG many times in the past.

So in that respect, Steel Skin with a base 100 armor and base 100 evasion would total out to be
100*(1+0.30) + 100*(1+0.30) = 260

So, from my understanding, the best way to have a LOT of armor is :

o have pure dext based character
o get a pure dex armor
o get Iron reflexes
o get as much pure increased %Armour and increased %Evasion nodes from the passiv skill tree
o completely skip L&S since the values from those nodes are lower than the pure ones ( unless there is a free L&S@24% on the way, or no such nodes accessible ).

Am I correct ?

"

Intoxikate wrote:

^^^ Armor passives also apply to Evasion when Iron Reflexes is taken.

Just as TaintedStrike posted the page before

Total Armour = Base Amour *(1 + Armour% + "Armour and evasion %") + Base Evasion *(1 + Evasion% + Armour% + Armour and Evasion %)

This has been confirmed by Marc_GGG many times in the past.

So in that respect, Steel Skin with a base 100 armor and base 100 evasion would total out to be
100*(1+0.30) + 100*(1+0.30) = 260

Assuming the above formula is correct, doesn't that mean Evasion gear is always superior if you have IR? Evasion gear gets the armor and armor/evasion bonuses just like AR gear, but it *also* gets the % bonus from dexterity. Even if your dexterity is fairly low, some % is better than none.

Is this analysis correct? It feels like it should be but at the same time I suspect I'm missing something. Armor gear seems like it's in at least as high demand as ev gear, which wouldn't make sense if evasion gear is superior in all respects with IR (an extremely popular passive).

"

Jihoko wrote:

"

Intoxikate wrote:

^^^ Armor passives also apply to Evasion when Iron Reflexes is taken.

Just as TaintedStrike posted the page before

Total Armour = Base Amour *(1 + Armour% + "Armour and evasion %") + Base Evasion *(1 + Evasion% + Armour% + Armour and Evasion %)

This has been confirmed by Marc_GGG many times in the past.

So in that respect, Steel Skin with a base 100 armor and base 100 evasion would total out to be
100*(1+0.30) + 100*(1+0.30) = 260

Assuming the above formula is correct, doesn't that mean Evasion gear is always superior if you have IR? Evasion gear gets the armor and armor/evasion bonuses just like AR gear, but it *also* gets the % bonus from dexterity. Even if your dexterity is fairly low, some % is better than none.

Is this analysis correct? It feels like it should be but at the same time I suspect I'm missing something. Armor gear seems like it's in at least as high demand as ev gear, which wouldn't make sense if evasion gear is superior in all respects with IR (an extremely popular passive).

IR is really out of the way for a lot of builds that don't have any reason to be down in that corner.

"

Enreign wrote:

IR is really out of the way for a lot of builds that don't have any reason to be down in that corner.

I suppose I probably overestimated the # of characters with IR. I assume your response confirms my analysis though? (that pure EV gear is always strictly better for IR builds since it benefits from all the same passives armor does in addition to evasion nodes and the dex bonus) From everything I've read today about this I'm fairly certain I've done the math correctly just wasn't sure if I was overlooking something.

Granted, even if evasion gear is strictly better (by a significant margin due to dex bonus) for IR builds it may be the case that many people aren't aware of that and just consider them interchangeable which would explain the relatively low demand for EV pieces. I also forgot about the importance of gem slot color i.e. it's basically impossible to roll a RRRRR 5-link pure ev chest.

It's not always the case no, it depends on your values. Specifically, hybrid gear gives more armor/ev combined than pure armor or pure ev, so depending on the values hybrid might still be more than pure EV, especially when you have the +% rolls on the armor which further amplifies the difference between the 2. Depends on your evasion pretty much.

"

Kacnafein wrote:

For those still interested, i made a quick in game test (cost me a bit of refund points), and here are the results:

The way game calculates Evasion/Armor with Iron Reflexes is:

1. Get Evasion, apply all Evasion modifiers
2. Get Armor, apply all Armor modifiers
3. Convert all Evasion to Armor due to Iron Reflex trait.

So, getting Leather and Steel is kid of worth it, but nothing amazing (it wont give you twice the bonus for evasion).

Example:
You have 100 armor, 100 evasion.

Leather and steel gives you +24% to armor and +24% to evasion.
Before Iron Reflexes:
Your evasion will be 124
Your Armor will be 124
After Iron Reflexes:
Your Armor is 124 + 124 (from Evasion) = 248

If you would get Steel Skin (+30% armor) instead:
Before Iron Reflexes:
Your Evasion will be 100 (no bonus aplied)
Your Armor will be 130
After Iron Reflexes:
Your Armor is 130 + 100 (from evasion) = 230

So you need to figure out do you have more Armor or Evasion and go with the bonus that will profit you more.

I read the whole thread, and I think with this post here I got it..

I really know only few ppl who explain thing as complicated as mark.. x)

so e.g., if i have

0 armor
100 ev

-> leather and steel -> IR -> 124 armor in the end, right?

and..If i have ONLY ev gear and take IR, +%armor nodes have 0 effect, right?