New Trading System IN MARCH 2014?!

The bots are providing a service. They quickly buy from people who want to sell quickly, and they provide items to people who can afford to pay their mark-up. If you want to compete with that, you have to provide a better service. The problem is, all three players in the seller-bot-buyer system are happy. The only unhappy person is a 4th party not even in the loop.

If you really feel that this would be bad for the game, you have to say that you're against trading at all. You have to use say that for some reason that efficient trading taking place is bad for the game. I think it is... I choose not to trade at all. But that's my choice. It makes the game more fun for me.

Once you open up trading to become more efficient, you have to deal with a change in the assumed power of a typical character. The game has to be made challenging for characters who have access to what ever items they might want. That leaves self-found play at a huge disadvantage... possibly too great a disadvantage to be enjoyable.

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monosama wrote:

yes i see your point.
my thinking is that any kind of asynchronous system would be exploitable.

if it's less convenient than poe.trade/procurement then it will be useless to implement it.

perhaps a simple anti-bot system like a captcha would solve it. ie. to complete the trade you have to type in a box or do something more creative/thematic.

Unfortunately captchas are easily defeatable by bots, the only thing a captcha would do is piss legit users off.

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Shagsbeard wrote:

The bots are providing a service. They quickly buy from people who want to sell quickly, and they provide items to people who can afford to pay their mark-up. If you want to compete with that, you have to provide a better service. The problem is, all three players in the seller-bot-buyer system are happy. The only unhappy person is a 4th party not even in the loop.

If you really feel that this would be bad for the game, you have to say that you're against trading at all. You have to use say that for some reason that efficient trading taking place is bad for the game. I think it is... I choose not to trade at all. But that's my choice. It makes the game more fun for me.

Once you open up trading to become more efficient, you have to deal with a change in the assumed power of a typical character. The game has to be made challenging for characters who have access to what ever items they might want. That leaves self-found play at a huge disadvantage... possibly too great a disadvantage to be enjoyable.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d3c-igroH0M

First 10 minutes of this video (at least thats how far i am in) and he explains basically what i mean.

He just has a different example, in his example someone writes his own poe.trade indexer which is 10minutes faster than poe.trade itself. Every item ever put up for trading this guy can see 10 minutes before you.

Thats .. fair? Thats nothing to be "unhappy" about?

How is saying that I actually want a chance to trade beeing against trading?


And also, i have to provide a better service? To whom? Only bots are buying. So my only solution to sell anything is to sell it for so low that bots will pick it up immidiately?

And my only chance to buy anything EVER is buying from a bot that flipped said item and sells it for considerably more? Not only more, but also too much? Because if it wasn't too much it'd be bought by another bot, before i could ever see it

I don't understand your logic

Guess I don't understand yours either, so we're at an impasse. You claim that no one is buying and complain that you're paying too much (buying). If you can't see the contradiction there, we're not going to get anywhere.

Something NEEDS to happen to bring the prices for good items down.

When the game first started perfect mirror items were about 25-30 exalts to buy now they are 400 exalts+ FOR THE SAME ITEMS that's not just inflation that means that only the rich 24/7 traders are buying/selling those items between themselves constantly inflating there price.

What i would do and its a radical step is have pre player shop/auction house items/orbs be un-tradable on said player shop/auction house and then that lets the economy have a fresh start with a new system but also allow people to keep their items to use in the game otherwise the game will be forever marred by the old broken system.

You need to change your meaning of "good item". There are "very good" items available for less than an exalt. You're just greedy and want "best of the best" items to be cheap.

What about simply limiting how many trades can be done using whatever new system they come up with? The limit could be high enough to make it not affect normal players, but still keep flipping or bots somewhat under control. Something like 20 or even 50 trades per day per account(and with some way of tracking things so people can't just mule items to their other account to get around the limit too easily).

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Hodari wrote:

What about simply limiting how many trades can be done using whatever new system they come up with? The limit could be high enough to make it not affect normal players, but still keep flipping or bots somewhat under control. Something like 20 or even 50 trades per day per account(and with some way of tracking things so people can't just mule items to their other account to get around the limit too easily).

yeah, impossible. Bots can just create endless accounts, only real players would be punished by this.

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Shagsbeard wrote:

Guess I don't understand yours either, so we're at an impasse. You claim that no one is buying and complain that you're paying too much (buying). If you can't see the contradiction there, we're not going to get anywhere.

No, I should've said that only Bots WILL be buying(the good deals), not are, when this feature were to become a reality.

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Shagsbeard wrote:

The bots are providing a service. They quickly buy from people who want to sell quickly, and they provide items to people who can afford to pay their mark-up. If you want to compete with that, you have to provide a better service. The problem is, all three players in the seller-bot-buyer system are happy. The only unhappy person is a 4th party not even in the loop.

If you really feel that this would be bad for the game, you have to say that you're against trading at all. You have to use say that for some reason that efficient trading taking place is bad for the game. I think it is... I choose not to trade at all. But that's my choice. It makes the game more fun for me.

Once you open up trading to become more efficient, you have to deal with a change in the assumed power of a typical character. The game has to be made challenging for characters who have access to what ever items they might want. That leaves self-found play at a huge disadvantage... possibly too great a disadvantage to be enjoyable.

Where a system like this can rapidly get out of control is where the two bots are looking at the same items and neither one of them has an upper limit buy order set.
Example :
1. User lists Widget for sale at 1 Chaos.
2. Bot1 has Widget for sale at 3 chaos, see User widget, buys it an relists it at 3 Chaos.
3. Bot2 has Widger for sale at 5 chaos, sees Bot1 widget (formerly User widget) and buys both it and Bot1 Widget and relists both at 5 chaos. Bot2 now has his own, User1 and Bot1 Widget for sale at 5 chaos.
4. Bot1 now sees that he no longer has a Widget for sale so goes to buy the cheapests and relists them at 6 Chaos.
5. Bot2 now sees that he no longer has a Widget....
etc etc.

Probably an extreme example I know, but in a free market where items dont have a set value situations like this can rapidly develop.

Putting a timer on relisting items for sale would mitigate against this and also help reduce flipping.
If flippers have to wait 8 hours before relisting the item they just bought this would discourage it a lot without affecting normal players who would be buying an item to use.
Its very unlikely that a player would outgrow items in 8 hours and even if they do, its no great inconvenience to them to wait until they next log in to throw it onto their shop.

I really dont see a new trade system happening, if GGG made a new system and it wasent very convenient people would just default back to PoE.trade

But at the same time I dont think GGG wants to make a system thats super easy to use (if they did they would have made it already)