General Discussion - Open Beta - design changes - Forum

" Spacke wrote: Do all the "CI-nerf-haters" actually understand how overpowered CI was before? It was a straight 50% multiplicative bonus, i.e. it was a bonus on top of all the other bonuses. Now let's convert a build that has 10,000 ES to 0.10: 1. cancel out CI: 10,000/1.5 = ~ 6,666.67 2. someone with 10k ES would probably have 350+ Int (~75% ES) and about 150% ES from the passive tree. (= 225%) Now let's take that out: 6,666.67/2.25 = ~ 2,962.96. 3. With discipline and the ES equipment nerfed we should end up with 2,500 base ES. 4. The patch notes say that the smaller ES nodes have been buffed. So let's just say we get 250% ES. We would get 2,500*2.5 = 6,250. (5,000 in case we just have a base of 2,000) That is still pretty high and the higher level equipment might compensate a lot so that CI should still be very well viable in the endgame. Don't forget that characters in merciless have -60% chaos resistance. With CI you have full immunity, i.e. you have one more free slot on your equipment for other mods. With CI you can also use "Blood Rage", i.e. you have 3+ free frenzy charges. Correct me if I'm wrong on any of those calculations. Really good post and I dont think people actually knew how op ES builds was compared to life builds. ES with CI is still going to be really really good	Posted by Burmeister99#3478 on Jan 22, 2013, 11:57:34 PM Quote this Post
Spacke, are you seriously comparing 6k ES to life? 6k ES was our baseline of "you might live." Also, 250% ES for that? If they buffed the good ES nodes (the 8%, not the shit 6%) by 50%, it would take 15 nodes to reach 250%. So you're paying as much as a life user for less gains. Oh, and there aren't 15 8% nodes. There are a handful of them.	Posted by Xikorut#7974 on Jan 22, 2013, 11:58:48 PM Quote this Post
" stayflyazn wrote: i love how you guys have a careful and methodical approach to problems in the game and are able to explain your thought processes and reasoning to the community. nice communication and keep up the good work. I've tried. And tried. And tried. Hell, many of us have. The amount of CI discussions that I have brought up since I started is overwhelming. Including the most recent ones. I'm sick of explaining it.	Posted by SL4Y3R#7487 on Jan 22, 2013, 11:59:15 PM Banned Quote this Post
" Xikorut wrote: Spacke, are you seriously comparing 6k ES to life? 6k ES was our baseline of "you might live." Also, 250% ES for that? If they buffed the good ES nodes (the 8%, not the shit 6%) by 50%, it would take 15 nodes to reach 250%. So you're paying as much as a life user for less gains. Oh, and there aren't 15 8% nodes. There are a handful of them. You know how the new passive skill tree looks like? I don't think you do so you post is pretty invalid Last edited by Burmeister99#3478 on Jan 23, 2013, 12:00:38 AM	Posted by Burmeister99#3478 on Jan 23, 2013, 12:00:29 AM Quote this Post
Great read, thanks for taking the time to explain the reasoning behind some of your design decisions. Claw aoe skill can't arrive soon enough!	Posted by Lo4f#2652 on Jan 23, 2013, 12:01:24 AM Quote this Post
" SL4Y3R wrote: Did you see me mention ANYTHING about hating the fact that they removed the ES%. NO. Because I was in FAVOR of it I wrote up a thread on it. Several actually. So please, pay attention to what I was actually writing about, instead of going off rattling about the ES% more thing. Unless GGG can, and is willing to, completely destroy ALL Chaos resist items. They fucked up. Edit: And no, I dont have one more free slot on my equipment. Since, my gear could get chaos resist. It's just one more I can't USE I think you should play the game before jumping to such decisions. GGG may well have fucked up. But they also may not have. In fact, what they've done to CI and Chaos Resists is something I find incredibly interesting. And CI needed that nerf. Now that it's nerfed there should be new options. Making CI an interesting choice and not an auto include.	Posted by TreePunchers#2578 on Jan 23, 2013, 12:01:30 AM Quote this Post
yeah I think it would've made sense to either add Chaos resistance on items months ago, or not do it now... possibly after OB there'll still be an alpha? that would've been the right place to test chaos resistance mods... I think the fact chaos damage was unresistable was an interesting part of it, and now mechanically it's not that different, sure chaos resistance is gonna be rare? but that doesn't really matter since players will still just wait till they find gear with it on there and use it.	Posted by namad#0366 on Jan 23, 2013, 12:01:37 AM Quote this Post
If they plan to buff the nodes by more than 50%, then something is wrong. 50% is goddamn huge. I remember an old adage on balance being 15% changes at most or people will notice something is amiss. If you need to make 50% changes on every node this late in the game man?	Posted by Xikorut#7974 on Jan 23, 2013, 12:01:42 AM Quote this Post
" Burmeister99 wrote: " Xikorut wrote: Spacke, are you seriously comparing 6k ES to life? 6k ES was our baseline of "you might live." Also, 250% ES for that? If they buffed the good ES nodes (the 8%, not the shit 6%) by 50%, it would take 15 nodes to reach 250%. So you're paying as much as a life user for less gains. Oh, and there aren't 15 8% nodes. There are a handful of them. You know how the new passive skill tree looks like? I don't think you do so you post is pretty invalid No, saying that 6k ES is the same as HP is invalid. Saying that CI players should have to spend the same amount as HP players is invalid. Have chaos damage resistnace in the tree. Fine. Having it on gear. What the fuck were they thinking. EDIT 2x: Or the fact that CI users will be stun locked more, chilled/frozen more, set on fire more, shocked more, and take dmg more. If there was a 100% fire resist node in the tree. And it cost you 1500 HP, would you take it? Of course you wouldn't Last edited by SL4Y3R#7487 on Jan 23, 2013, 12:04:21 AM	Posted by SL4Y3R#7487 on Jan 23, 2013, 12:01:52 AM Banned Quote this Post
i think the issue is they nerfed the ES gear aswell so unless you get godly gear your just not going to get high enough ES to replace the life u lose	Posted by Moordakhan#7098 on Jan 23, 2013, 12:07:41 AM Quote this Post