It ruins the game because it makes it effectively pay to win, but it doesn't take away revenue that would have gone to ggg. The whole point is that they don't sell in game items in the first place.
The whole point is that the sites existence has a negative for PoE, so I dont really get why you would be pedantic enough to point this out.
Not sure if you got my point. There are lots of legitimate reasons why sites like jsp are bad for the game. Inserting false arguments into the debate only serves to weaken the legitimate points. Pointing out core factual misconceptions is not pedantry, especially when they've been used as the key point of multiple posts.
The views in this read definitely represent our opinions on the matter. We will not allow people to discuss external trades on our forum, and we'll do what we can to discourage external trades entirely.
One way we can stop sites like d2jsp being attractive is to offer better trade tools ourselves. If people can link items and complete trades on our forums (without having to load the game), it'll be a lot more convenient than using d2jsp.
Well said Chris, and my I add by using d2jsp you are supporting their owner who I will not name. He has a very shady past on how he used people for d2jsp, don't feed him anymore profits that he truly doesn't deserve. Keep trading within PoE or the PoE trading forums, there's no need to use that or any other site.
Say I find the "Uber item of pure awesome" that has 6 good stats with near perfect rolls. What will stop me from selling it on another site for a ton of real money? This is the thing I fear most about the game, that third party trades for real money will happen.
Is it ok just because most of the community does not know it exists or does not care? When you draw the line is this not pay to win? Are people that naive or childish with the "if I close my eyes and ignore it it does not exist" mentality?
I'm not posting in support of d2jsp or any third party market, but do want to point something out in response to this.
When you find that uber item and sell it, what harm is caused? The item was in the game the moment you found it, now it just belongs to another player. Or.. from a third player's perspective.. player A found item X and gave it to player B. What has changed for every other player? Nothing.
Games like this require 3 things to be at the top of any ladder: Skill, Time, and Gear. Even if you pay $2000 for the best gear in the game, if you don't invest the time and don't possess the skill, you won't be a top tier player.
When a site like d2jsp is combined with a pay-to-win cash shop, that is when things can get very unbalanced very quickly. Player A sells item for cash, uses cash to buy pay to win items, uses pay to win items to craft/farm top gear much faster than anyone else can do it, sells more stuff for more cash, rinse/repeat until caught.
Since there is no pay-to-win here, any item traded/sold via third party has minimal effect. Somebody still farmed that item. There is nothing in the game that allows player A to obtain item x significantly faster than any other player. High quality items will appear into the game via drop or crafting at a steady rate based only on the numbers of players playing. No matter how many times item x is bought/sold on d2jsp, the same number of items will be in the game.
" ... to let them know the game isn’t going to be very fair from here on out."
- Qarl
I'm more concerned about botting and how easy it would be to obtain something too good for your level from just trading with another player legitimately. That's usually what affects the economy.
Say I find the "Uber item of pure awesome" that has 6 good stats with near perfect rolls. What will stop me from selling it on another site for a ton of real money? This is the thing I fear most about the game, that third party trades for real money will happen.
Is it ok just because most of the community does not know it exists or does not care? When you draw the line is this not pay to win? Are people that naive or childish with the "if I close my eyes and ignore it it does not exist" mentality?
I'm not posting in support of d2jsp or any third party market, but do want to point something out in response to this.
When you find that uber item and sell it, what harm is caused? The item was in the game the moment you found it, now it just belongs to another player. Or.. from a third player's perspective.. player A found item X and gave it to player B. What has changed for every other player? Nothing.
Games like this require 3 things to be at the top of any ladder: Skill, Time, and Gear. Even if you pay $2000 for the best gear in the game, if you don't invest the time and don't possess the skill, you won't be a top tier player.
When a site like d2jsp is combined with a pay-to-win cash shop, that is when things can get very unbalanced very quickly. Player A sells item for cash, uses cash to buy pay to win items, uses pay to win items to craft/farm top gear much faster than anyone else can do it, sells more stuff for more cash, rinse/repeat until caught.
Since there is no pay-to-win here, any item traded/sold via third party has minimal effect. Somebody still farmed that item. There is nothing in the game that allows player A to obtain item x significantly faster than any other player. High quality items will appear into the game via drop or crafting at a steady rate based only on the numbers of players playing. No matter how many times item x is bought/sold on d2jsp, the same number of items will be in the game.
I do think undue weight is being put on jsp. The main downside of jsp is that it inhibits the natural deflation that occurs when people quit games (and leave stuff on their accounts to rot)... but since only a small minority use it the effect won't be so noticeable. The main problem is botters/hackers...
"
Syncness wrote:
d2jsp is far more lightweight and loads quicker.
The forum gold system is also immune to inflation.
fg isn't immune to inflation.
The inflation rate is probably around 10-20% per year (hard to pin it down exactly)... which is technically high, but when compared to the inflation in an average game (100-1000% per year) it's easy to feel like fg is immune.
"
Prozon wrote:
"
Chris wrote:
The views in this read definitely represent our opinions on the matter. We will not allow people to discuss external trades on our forum, and we'll do what we can to discourage external trades entirely.
One way we can stop sites like d2jsp being attractive is to offer better trade tools ourselves. If people can link items and complete trades on our forums (without having to load the game), it'll be a lot more convenient than using d2jsp.
Well, i think alot of the reasons people would use 3rd party sites like d2jsp etc is to sell and buy stuff for real money, not because its inconvenient to trade on this forum or ingame. So it wont really help to improve trade on these forums.
Id assume trading stuff for real money on the forums here or ingame would be "illegal" ?
That's not the main reason at all.
The population on that site which uses real money is a small minority.
The vast majority just use it as a place to arrange normal in-game trades, or as a go-between for cross-game and/or cross-realm trading.
If you don't believe me consider this... d3 has been out for only 8 months and there are already millions of posts in the d3 trading sections... do you really think those are all about real money trades despite the fact that d3 has a rmah built right into the game that they could use?
IGN: Jerk, Princess
http://orbswap.info - the easy way to trade currency
Say I find the "Uber item of pure awesome" that has 6 good stats with near perfect rolls. What will stop me from selling it on another site for a ton of real money? This is the thing I fear most about the game, that third party trades for real money will happen.
Is it ok just because most of the community does not know it exists or does not care? When you draw the line is this not pay to win? Are people that naive or childish with the "if I close my eyes and ignore it it does not exist" mentality?
I'm not posting in support of d2jsp or any third party market, but do want to point something out in response to this.
When you find that uber item and sell it, what harm is caused? The item was in the game the moment you found it, now it just belongs to another player. Or.. from a third player's perspective.. player A found item X and gave it to player B. What has changed for every other player? Nothing.
Games like this require 3 things to be at the top of any ladder: Skill, Time, and Gear. Even if you pay $2000 for the best gear in the game, if you don't invest the time and don't possess the skill, you won't be a top tier player.
When a site like d2jsp is combined with a pay-to-win cash shop, that is when things can get very unbalanced very quickly. Player A sells item for cash, uses cash to buy pay to win items, uses pay to win items to craft/farm top gear much faster than anyone else can do it, sells more stuff for more cash, rinse/repeat until caught.
Since there is no pay-to-win here, any item traded/sold via third party has minimal effect. Somebody still farmed that item. There is nothing in the game that allows player A to obtain item x significantly faster than any other player. High quality items will appear into the game via drop or crafting at a steady rate based only on the numbers of players playing. No matter how many times item x is bought/sold on d2jsp, the same number of items will be in the game.
So how is that different from having a real money auction house or trading system in the game? Since we know these things will happen, why not make the devs get a small cut?
Why do people have a crusade against any official way of trading real money for items found by other players, but are OK with such trades being done via third party sites/tools?
Say I find the "Uber item of pure awesome" that has 6 good stats with near perfect rolls. What will stop me from selling it on another site for a ton of real money? This is the thing I fear most about the game, that third party trades for real money will happen.
Is it ok just because most of the community does not know it exists or does not care? When you draw the line is this not pay to win? Are people that naive or childish with the "if I close my eyes and ignore it it does not exist" mentality?
Actually, you'd be better off trying to get Mirrors to create a legit duplicate of that item before doing anything.
Last edited by nakieon#1699 on Jan 21, 2013, 3:31:06 PM
