Thanks. I'll just go guardians then, it seems to be best choice overall, even tho trickster would be very decent as well. Also easier to level with RF totems which I kind of wanted to do. The beta will be a great way to test the leveling part and the transition to RF. I've never played this skill before and it's not as straightforward as most.
Track your map runs: http://pathofmaps.com (retired)
2 Offensive Curses - no Enfeeble
16438 ES
666k DPS
Lacks Quality/Levels on some Gems
Hello, just wondering why you have deviated away from the guide items you suggested.
why did you choose the Shapers touch Crusader Gloves and Steppan Eard Sorcerer Boots over rare ones?
Why did you go for Socketed Gems Deal 30% more elemental Damage in helm instead of the glove enchant?
Myself i am still struggling to reach 15k es with my current gear =S ( cannot check due to being at work but i think with the rare shield below i am at 14.7k with rise i am at around 12.8k id love to be able to switch to a doryani's however i would lose to much ES. I know upgrading to a better ES shield would provide more ES, but i am not sure where you are getting the extra 2-3k ES from
2 Offensive Curses - no Enfeeble
16438 ES
666k DPS
Lacks Quality/Levels on some Gems
Hello, just wondering why you have deviated away from the guide items you suggested.
why did you choose the Shapers touch Crusader Gloves and Steppan Eard Sorcerer Boots over rare ones?
Why did you go for Socketed Gems Deal 30% more elemental Damage in helm instead of the glove enchant?
Myself i am still struggling to reach 15k es with my current gear =S ( cannot check due to being at work but i think with the rare shield below i am at 14.7k with rise i am at around 12.8k id love to be able to switch to a doryani's however i would lose to much ES. I know upgrading to a better ES shield would provide more ES, but i am not sure where you are getting the extra 2-3k ES from
I know i need to upgrade from my vertex to a rare helm when i get chance, and also change my belt and add % es to one of my rings.
Edit:
Is it your shapers touch that give you such a ES boost?
Hello, I'll try and answer this:
First, there is no difference at all in damage between 30% Dot on gloves or 30% ele on helm, it comes out to the same, so you have the option for either craft, but generally speaking it is much easier to get decent stats on gloves with a delirium craft than it is to get lucky with the helm craft, so the gloves are usually a safer option, and also because of this there are more gloves like this on the market for sale and at better prices.
Shaper's touch gloves are a decent option (but in most cases do not provide more es than decent rolled sorc gloves). Shaper's touch are pretty cheap gloves that you can pick up for around 2 chaos and then vaal them looking to get vuln on hit implicit, obviously this curse on hit is great for our build, it saves us at very least 1 gem slot in our gear. Another thing is shapers touch gloves add some extra evasion. But the you are VERY unlikely to find or hit vuln on hit on a pair of rare delirium sorc gloves because the chance of hitting that implicit is low. So it is much cheaper to risk bricking 2 chaos gloves than it is ruining delirium gloves.
as far as your ES concern, I explained a bit about this some pages back I will quote below
"
whoismiked wrote:
I have been seeing this question a lot so I'll try to answer the best that I can since my RF Char is at 20k ES. I will note that I play a Guardian, so I am not familiar with the ES scaling with trickster ascendancy.
My #1 tip by far is download and use Path Of Building program, this tool is amazing for testing things out without actually buying any gear and learning how to mix-max things to the fullest. You can upload your character into it and craft your own gear to test out on your char and know exactly what to expect before spending anything buying gear.
Secondly, in order to reach 18K+ you obviously need to understand that it's going to take very top end gear with High ES and INT. Expensive gear.
Another thing is flat ES + %es crafted mod on rings adds a lot.
Also since this build can easily use 5 or more jewels in the tree and this build doesn't exactly need anything in particular in jewels, that mean jewels are a great place to add in extra ES, look for Unique Energy from within jewel(s), jewels with % ES and INT. Rare Jewels can have 8% es and INT on them, these add up.
Here is my gear for reference what it takes to reach 20k
2 Offensive Curses - no Enfeeble
16438 ES
666k DPS
Lacks Quality/Levels on some Gems
Hello, just wondering why you have deviated away from the guide items you suggested.
why did you choose the Shapers touch Crusader Gloves and Steppan Eard Sorcerer Boots over rare ones?
Why did you go for Socketed Gems Deal 30% more elemental Damage in helm instead of the glove enchant?
Myself i am still struggling to reach 15k es with my current gear =S ( cannot check due to being at work but i think with the rare shield below i am at 14.7k with rise i am at around 12.8k id love to be able to switch to a doryani's however i would lose to much ES. I know upgrading to a better ES shield would provide more ES, but i am not sure where you are getting the extra 2-3k ES from
I know i need to upgrade from my vertex to a rare helm when i get chance, and also change my belt and add % es to one of my rings.
Edit:
Is it your shapers touch that give you such a ES boost?
Hello, I'll try and answer this:
First, there is no difference at all in damage between 30% Dot on gloves or 30% ele on helm, it comes out to the same, so you have the option for either craft, but generally speaking it is much easier to get decent stats on gloves with a delirium craft than it is to get lucky with the helm craft, so the gloves are usually a safer option, and also because of this there are more gloves like this on the market for sale and at better prices.
Shaper's touch gloves are a decent option (but in most cases do not provide more es than decent rolled sorc gloves). Shaper's touch are pretty cheap gloves that you can pick up for around 2 chaos and then vaal them looking to get vuln on hit implicit, obviously this curse on hit is great for our build, it saves us at very least 1 gem slot in our gear. Another thing is shapers touch gloves add some extra evasion. But the you are VERY unlikely to find or hit vuln on hit on a pair of rare delirium sorc gloves because the chance of hitting that implicit is low. So it is much cheaper to risk bricking 2 chaos gloves than it is ruining delirium gloves.
as far as your ES concern, I explained a bit about this some pages back I will quote below
"
whoismiked wrote:
I have been seeing this question a lot so I'll try to answer the best that I can since my RF Char is at 20k ES. I will note that I play a Guardian, so I am not familiar with the ES scaling with trickster ascendancy.
My #1 tip by far is download and use Path Of Building program, this tool is amazing for testing things out without actually buying any gear and learning how to mix-max things to the fullest. You can upload your character into it and craft your own gear to test out on your char and know exactly what to expect before spending anything buying gear.
Secondly, in order to reach 18K+ you obviously need to understand that it's going to take very top end gear with High ES and INT. Expensive gear.
Another thing is flat ES + %es crafted mod on rings adds a lot.
Also since this build can easily use 5 or more jewels in the tree and this build doesn't exactly need anything in particular in jewels, that mean jewels are a great place to add in extra ES, look for Unique Energy from within jewel(s), jewels with % ES and INT. Rare Jewels can have 8% es and INT on them, these add up.
Here is my gear for reference what it takes to reach 20k
I was comparing my tree to Yalani's, as i followed Yalani's guide, your free is very differant to the tree suggested for guardian .... WELL as i was writing that line i loaded up the suggested guardian tree.. its changed since i started following it >.<
I noticed you haven't spent 4 points getting +1 max fire res, Barbarism. Why is that?
what is the reasion you go down into coldhearted calculation and nullification?
The build i was following was along the lines of this..
Hello, just wondering why you have deviated away from the guide items you suggested.
why did you choose the Shapers touch Crusader Gloves and Steppan Eard Sorcerer Boots over rare ones?
Why did you go for Socketed Gems Deal 30% more elemental Damage in helm instead of the glove enchant?
Myself i am still struggling to reach 15k es with my current gear =S ( cannot check due to being at work but i think with the rare shield below i am at 14.7k with rise i am at around 12.8k id love to be able to switch to a doryani's however i would lose to much ES. I know upgrading to a better ES shield would provide more ES, but i am not sure where you are getting the extra 2-3k ES from
I know i need to upgrade from my vertex to a rare helm when i get chance, and also change my belt and add % es to one of my rings.
Edit:
Is it your shapers touch that give you such a ES boost?
I am currently running this build. With a very heavy regen setup I'm sitting at 19k ES. With some respec I think I can easily reach 22k. lll post my gear for reference.
With the rarity neck and HH Im still sitting at 16k ES.
Last edited by Miská#0911 on Apr 13, 2017, 8:01:45 AM
I am currently running this build. With a very heavy regen setup I'm sitting at 19k ES. With some respec I think I can easily reach 22k. lll post my gear for reference.
With the rarity neck and HH Im still sitting at 16k ES.
Yah i notice you are using the same old build as me, hmm i guess its mainly my helm and shield that needs to be upgraded
I was comparing my tree to Yalani's, as i followed Yalani's guide, your free is very differant to the tree suggested for guardian .... WELL as i was writing that line i loaded up the suggested guardian tree.. its changed since i started following it >.<
I noticed you haven't spent 4 points getting +1 max fire res, Barbarism. Why is that?
what is the reasion you go down into coldhearted calculation and nullification?
The build i was following was along the lines of this..
The extra 1% fire res on barb definitely does help and I will not say that you should not get it, but to me personally I found that 4 point investment not worth it.
I found that I currently have around 655 ES regen per second leftover after RF damage with my current setup (this is without any flasks or buffs, just normal). Sacrificing 24% es (4 nodes) to get 1 max fire res I would end up with about 750 es regen per second left over. I personally felt that more ES (which in turns gives more damage as well) was worth more to me than 100 extra regen.
Spending 3 points to get to nullification actually ends up being more ES than 3x 6% es nodes. The 20 int from coldhearted is 4% es on it own, 5% from the next node, and 10% es from nullifacation = 6.33% es per point, not to mention the other bonus stats from the nodes.
First, there is no difference at all in damage between 30% Dot on gloves or 30% ele on helm, it comes out to the same, so you have the option for either craft, but generally speaking it is much easier to get decent stats on gloves with a delirium craft than it is to get lucky with the helm craft, so the gloves are usually a safer option, and also because of this there are more gloves like this on the market for sale and at better prices.
Shaper's touch gloves are a decent option (but in most cases do not provide more es than decent rolled sorc gloves). Shaper's touch are pretty cheap gloves that you can pick up for around 2 chaos and then vaal them looking to get vuln on hit implicit, obviously this curse on hit is great for our build, it saves us at very least 1 gem slot in our gear. Another thing is shapers touch gloves add some extra evasion. But the you are VERY unlikely to find or hit vuln on hit on a pair of rare delirium sorc gloves because the chance of hitting that implicit is low. So it is much cheaper to risk bricking 2 chaos gloves than it is ruining delirium gloves.
Hope this helps.
Just to clarify: this is not true at all. Shaper's Touch are BIS slot for this build (in fact, they are very close to 300+ ES Gloves for pretty much any ES build that doesnt need any other Unique Gloves and is able to get some decent amount of STR on jewlery - this item is just insanly underrated).
If you import my character into Path of Building and create a perfect pair of 3T1 ES + T1 Int Gloves, you'll notice that Shaper's still beats them by 600 ES.
With Shaper's equipped, you will gain more ES from STR, than you would get from INT, since Presence of Chayula also converts the Life gained into ES on top of the %ES and flat ES from the Mana Bonus. The additional Accuracy really helps with procing EE/EO via Shield Charge, and your DEX also gets converted to a little bit of ES.
Buying a Belt is also pretty cheap if you wear Shaper's, since a Heavy belt with a bit of flat ES and T1-T2 STR is almost as effective as a well rolled Crystal Belt, but only costs a few Chaos Orbs.
Shaper's also provide a shit ton of Evasion rating if used on a Trickster - not as effective ES wise though, due to the lack of Mana to ES scaling.
"
1) Why do you get Quick Recovery near MOM instead of the 3 regen nodes in templar next to sanctity? It would be +0.4% life regen, +5% mana regen, -14% life. Do you value the small dps increase of the increased HP over the extra life regen? The +life regen is pretty huge. I personally get both. Maybe I should trade out Quick Recovery for some 6% ES nodes.
They are worth it with a Legacy Energy from Within Jewel. Just skip these nodes otherwise.
"
2) Especially with the nerfs to Whirling Blades, why wouldn't you go Swift Killer, over Walk of the Aether? Swift killer gives you a 20% attack speed, plus a free 16% MORE multiplier on RF. You lose 4% attack speed, 8% mana, and free ability costs. I ended up getting +1 frenzy from the bandit quests for a 20% MORE multiplier. Are the frenzy charges too hard to keep up in practice? Is the free movement abilities actually needed? It doesn't cost much. Am i missing you getting Frenzy charges some other way?
Shavronnes' Revelation prevents Manareg, so we really need the 0 Manacost of Movementskills. It is a solid option for Trickster without Shav's though.
"
3) Why don't you go for the flask cluster, Alchemist? Seeing as we don't use life flasks, we can really, really abuse this cluster.
Getting it means:
+1 max Lightning Resist (Vinktar)
+1 max Fire Resist (Dying Sun)
+9% Area Effect (Dying Sun)
+12% Damage (Sulphur)
30% Evasion (Stibnite)
+12% duration
Because there are too many efficient nodes on the Skilltree that we have to skill over Alchemist.
"
3.2) If we did get flask nodes, how would that change up your flask setup? Would you recommend getting things like Granite and Jade to really abuse the +38% increase of both the intrinsic amount and the suffix? I wonder if it would change up which prefix we would go too.
I would not change my setup at all. Every single Flask I am currently running is important to this build.
"
3.3) What nodes would you drop/change up if we went flask cluster? (can you tell I really like this cluster?)
The least efficient ES/Damage nodes.
"
4)
Dropping EE is not an option - just go with Scorching Ray if you like to have an additional spell.
"
5) I'm using Doryani's Catalyst. I wanted to try to abuse the level 20 ele prolif it has. I'm currently running CWDT + Tempest Shield + Cold Snap. Thought was that Cold snap would trigger EE, freeze and prolif enemies. This seems to work decently well.
Tempest shield would help proc EE, spread Shock stacks (no Vinktars yet), add block chance and help keep up Ele Overload. Not sure if it's worth it.
Maybe low level CWDT + Tempest Shield, and Power Charge on Crit, or Increase Crit? I lose shock stacking then most likely, but keeps up 3% block and Ele Overload up more often.
Just drop it. You will rarely get hit by anything anyway after you upgrade your equip and gain some levels.
First, there is no difference at all in damage between 30% Dot on gloves or 30% ele on helm, it comes out to the same, so you have the option for either craft, but generally speaking it is much easier to get decent stats on gloves with a delirium craft than it is to get lucky with the helm craft, so the gloves are usually a safer option, and also because of this there are more gloves like this on the market for sale and at better prices.
Shaper's touch gloves are a decent option (but in most cases do not provide more es than decent rolled sorc gloves). Shaper's touch are pretty cheap gloves that you can pick up for around 2 chaos and then vaal them looking to get vuln on hit implicit, obviously this curse on hit is great for our build, it saves us at very least 1 gem slot in our gear. Another thing is shapers touch gloves add some extra evasion. But the you are VERY unlikely to find or hit vuln on hit on a pair of rare delirium sorc gloves because the chance of hitting that implicit is low. So it is much cheaper to risk bricking 2 chaos gloves than it is ruining delirium gloves.
Hope this helps.
Just to clarify: this is not true at all. Shaper's Touch are BIS slot for this build (in fact, they are very close to 300+ ES Gloves for pretty much any ES build that doesnt need any other Unique Gloves and is able to get some decent amount of STR on jewlery - this item is just insanly underrated).
If you import my character into Path of Building and create a perfect pair of 3T1 ES + T1 Int Gloves, you'll notice that Shaper's still beats them by 600 ES.
With Shaper's equipped, you will gain more ES from STR, than you would get from INT, since Presence of Chayula also converts the Life gained into ES on top of the %ES and flat ES from the Mana Bonus. The additional Accuracy really helps with procing EE/EO via Shield Charge, and your DEX also gets converted to a little bit of ES.
Buying a Belt is also pretty cheap if you wear Shaper's, since a Heavy belt with a bit of flat ES and T1-T2 STR is almost as effective as a well rolled Crystal Belt, but only costs a few Chaos Orbs.
Shaper's also provide a shit ton of Evasion rating if used on a Trickster - not as effective ES wise though, due to the lack of Mana to ES scaling.
Its a difference in your gear versus mine because I lose 152 es using Shapers touch gloves (20,420 -> 20,268), and my sorc gloves arent even that great (220es + 30 int). I did not exceed the amount of strength I needed for my gear and gems like you did because I preferred int and resistances as suffixes rather than strength on my gear.
So it's safe to say they are not BiS for everyone.
I will say though that I certainly undersold them in my explanation above because they can be bis in the right circumstances, but without tons of stacked strength, they are not better for a guardian for who has just enough strength to cover requirements.
Regardless though I wanted to take a moment to thank you very much for the great guide and for your explanations on everything. Out of all the guides i've dealt with over the years, your guide and the support you provide with it are amazing, nothing but love for ya!
Edit: Give me an import link for your character in path of building and let me fiddle with it :)
Last edited by MrDeezy#4313 on Apr 13, 2017, 11:33:11 AM
I am grateful for the guide, it is a complex build with a lot of info, but please update the first page with Guardian gem /gear options for using Shapers Touch and a Hubris with more elemental damage. It implies you want to use 6 link RF and I don't understand why.
