Desync and why it's fixable

Thanks for replying to this thread, Rhys!
IGN: SplitEpimorphism
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Rhys wrote:
Compared to the current system, I see more opportunities for desync to happen, with the only upside being that it hopefully causes the client to better predict the server state. I'm just not sure it's a net profit, in the end.
I see more variations of desync with less overall occurrence. But I can respect that your concerns are concerns, and you're not saying that you know. And, to be fair, I don't really know either; I think it's something which could work, and that's why God invented prototyping.

Still, I feel this is something which deserves further exploration. If I had a spare thousand bucks or so, I'd spend it on trying to get this to work; that's how deeply I care about it. Perhaps I'd fail, perhaps I wouldn't. But I really, truly believe someone should try.
When Stephen Colbert was killed by HYDRA's Project Insight in 2014, the comedy world lost a hero. Since his life model decoy isn't up to the task, please do not mistake my performance as political discussion. I'm just doing what Steve would have wanted.
Last edited by ScrotieMcB on Dec 3, 2013, 12:03:12 AM
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Rhys wrote:
I'm just not sure it's a net profit, in the end.


Badum tish.
Casually casual.

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Rhys wrote:
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faerwin wrote:
#2 actually happens and quite frequently. It is most notable with doorways.

Well, the "fighting monsters you aren't actually next to" part can happen already, yes, though for different reasons. I'm just saying this new method introduces new ways for it to happen, so it would potentially occur even more frequently than it does now.

I assume that with both server and client handling AI separately, the server never tells the client about AI decisions? (It stills stream damage results, of course.)

I worry about decoupling the AI like this. It effectively renders the client-side AI "meaningless". It would just be a visual representation of the client's best guess of the server state. In contrast, currently any time you see a monster do anything on the client, you KNOW that it is doing the same thing on the server (or trying to). Sure, sometimes you don't see what's happening on the server, but that part isn't changing.

Compared to the current system, I see more opportunities for desync to happen, with the only upside being that it hopefully causes the client to better predict the server state. I'm just not sure it's a net profit, in the end.


why does desync only happen in path of exile? even the D2 beta didnt have this much desync.

you can ramble on as much as you want, but the fact is is that this game plays like a game from the 1980's. Desync has been happening for 2 years since the closed beta started, so its pretty obvious you guys aren't going to fix it or you would have already.

its just a shame your engine for this game is awful
IGN: Leupacob, Cobberts
check out my shop--> http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/162312/page/1
Make the server trust the client. Then install a punkbuster/warden/etc/etc on us. I honestly wouldn't care if GGG watches what I do on my PC while playing PoE. The privacy thing people will complain about is ridiculous. If they wish to remain a reputable company, they would only look for certain things and disregard the rest.
Shmo's Suggestions; Dozen Skills!
http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/402487
well lupacob, you are obviously a network engineer with years of experience since you seem to assume this issue is easily resolved.

As far as i understand GGG general response to the desync problem, it is because of the system GGG developped for the client to interact with the server. Desync, as it turns out is an inherent feature of that system that cant simply be fixed entirely, as much as just reduced to a bare minimum in a best case scenario.

In short, they cant fix desync. It will always be there, people like qwave have made in-depth analyses of potential fixes for it, but GGG has mentioned several times that those changes are too drastic and not feasible because it would require a complete overhaul of the current system.
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lupacob wrote:
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Rhys wrote:
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faerwin wrote:
#2 actually happens and quite frequently. It is most notable with doorways.

Well, the "fighting monsters you aren't actually next to" part can happen already, yes, though for different reasons. I'm just saying this new method introduces new ways for it to happen, so it would potentially occur even more frequently than it does now.

I assume that with both server and client handling AI separately, the server never tells the client about AI decisions? (It stills stream damage results, of course.)

I worry about decoupling the AI like this. It effectively renders the client-side AI "meaningless". It would just be a visual representation of the client's best guess of the server state. In contrast, currently any time you see a monster do anything on the client, you KNOW that it is doing the same thing on the server (or trying to). Sure, sometimes you don't see what's happening on the server, but that part isn't changing.

Compared to the current system, I see more opportunities for desync to happen, with the only upside being that it hopefully causes the client to better predict the server state. I'm just not sure it's a net profit, in the end.


why does desync only happen in path of exile? even the D2 beta didnt have this much desync.

you can ramble on as much as you want, but the fact is is that this game plays like a game from the 1980's. Desync has been happening for 2 years since the closed beta started, so its pretty obvious you guys aren't going to fix it or you would have already.

its just a shame your engine for this game is awful


You have no idea why this game has desync. it isn't because of an awful engine.
"the premier Action RPG for hardcore gamers."
-GGG

Happy hunting/fishing
Path of Exile is the only game i have ever played with desync, and even if there is another game with desync, i doubt it would be as bad as in PoE.

The fact that they made a game not only with desync, but the absolute worst desync in the industry is amazing.

Their excuse for not fixing desync is : hackers. Well if this was true then they should win an award, because no hacker ever wants to touch PoE when they see the desync.

I am a Network Engineer with 8.5 years experience in the field and i can tell you for sure it is fixable, they just don't want to fix it, it's not even on their "to do" list.

1 thing i can tell you is that the "hacker" excuse, is just an excuse so you wont complain about it thinking that desync protects you, ofc that is an absolute lie.

Desync is here because of their engine and servers. They have the worst engine in the industry and possibly the worst servers of any MMO on the market right now. Combine these 2 and you get the amazing "anti hacking" desync.
Last edited by lolSaiph on Dec 3, 2013, 12:46:35 AM
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lolSaiph wrote:
"hacker"
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lolSaiph wrote:
I am a Network Engineer with 8.5 years experience in the field
Pics or it didn't happen.
When Stephen Colbert was killed by HYDRA's Project Insight in 2014, the comedy world lost a hero. Since his life model decoy isn't up to the task, please do not mistake my performance as political discussion. I'm just doing what Steve would have wanted.
@lolSaiph

A lot of people have solutions for desync. It's true. A lot of people think they can fix it (and I don't use 'think' to be mocking please don't take it that way). But GGG weighs practicality, time spent, viability, and effectiveness as major components to the process. Any and all changes that involve desync would require major strategizing and planning. Considering they don't even have a 'solution in the works', I'd say we're looking at a lot of time waiting for a solution at all, at this point.

I'm grateful that Rhys has given his thoughts because it helps see what areas they are thinking about in regards to the solution by Scrotie. It's good they are being so interactive with the community.

Hopefully this is another insightful discussion with the devs! :D

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