We players want an Auction House.

"

AceNightfire wrote:

Ofc this does fuel value depreciation. If I know the accurate price for an item, I have just to underprice that avarage price to sell my item fast. If some people do that the next players have to underprice again and again. And most people want to sell their items fast. In PoE, you can sell stuff fast even at high price, because there are mostly not many items of the same type avaiable at the same time.

If you undercut too much I will buy your items and, with more patience, sell them at a significant profit. Anyone who overpays in POE is not using searchable item indexes. Further, if the trade system actually relies on actor ignorance what would happen years from now when the economy is much better understood, like Diablo 2's? At best you're saying POE's trade system is unsustainable.

"

AceNightfire wrote:

Easy solution: Remove trade-forum. No way to compare or check prices anymore via forum.

External forums will never have the linking-possibility and there won't be many players active.

See D2JSP.org

@ephetat

I see what you're trying to do there. If items are more scarce they will increase in value and if orbs are less scarce they will decrease in value. What I think that might neglect, however, is that crafted items, on average, are sold for less currency than it took to craft them. That is because sellers can only attract buyers by offering to undercut potential crafting costs.

So, while initially players may hoard or craft, ultimately things would settle down into a similar equilibrium as now. Do I agree we need more incentive to craft? Yes. Do I agree we need better/more craft recipes? Yes. Do I think we should nerf gear drops and buff orbs drops? Well I'm not opposed to it but I don't think that alone would solve our problem.

What is the problem anyway? Let's clear that up. The problem with trade as I see it is the devaluation of loot and crafting as collective character gear improves. Trade catalyzes that devaluation of loot and crafting and eventually makes arbitrage and trade more attractive than playing the game. So how do we prevent the devaluation of loot? One way to do that is with a gear sink - like hardcore. Although hardcore is an imperfect solution for various reason. I discuss this topic in more depth in another thread, here.

I also recognize that, for the casual player, finding cool items and evaluating them is fun. Searchable buyouts and price comparisons take away from that fun. That, in my opinion, is a different topic and can be addressed separately from the problem of trade vs farming/crafting.

"

Veta321 wrote:

I see what you're trying to do there. If items are more scarce they will increase in value and if orbs are less scarce they will decrease in value. What I think that might neglect, however, is that crafted items, on average, are sold for less currency than it took to craft them. That is because sellers can only attract buyers by offering to undercut potential crafting costs.

As if. Unless the item base is Corsair Sword, Vaal Regalia, Thicket Bow, or some other very popular base, you can pretty much discount that possibility entirely. And even then, a lot of them are farmed, not made.

It's not that they're sold for less currency than it took to craft them, it's that they're sold for less currency than it would take to craft them.

"

Veta321 wrote:

I also recognize that, for the casual player, finding cool items and evaluating them is fun. Searchable buyouts and price comparisons take away from that fun.

I don't believe that enjoyment is lost on the hardcore player, either; the difference is that the "serious" players of the world have no problem thinking an item is shit, but trading it for more because everyone seems to love the shit. I'm not saying they completely suspend their judgment, but they refuse to act on it. That shit wouldn't be happening if they weren't getting their financial news from xyz.

This player does not want an auction house.

"

Veta321 wrote:

What is the problem anyway? Let's clear that up. The problem with trade as I see it is the devaluation of loot and crafting as collective character gear improves. Trade catalyzes that devaluation of loot and crafting and eventually makes arbitrage and trade more attractive than playing the game. So how do we prevent the devaluation of loot? One way to do that is with a gear sink - like hardcore. Although hardcore is an imperfect solution for various reason. I discuss this topic in more depth in another thread, here.

I agree with you but I would add that the devaluation is catalyzed by one other factor: universality of good Rares (so much for 'deepest item system in any ARPG', as much as I love this game), and subsequently there being too much emphasis on items in general. Ideally I would have much more "reliable power" in the passive tree (like +general damage, +resists, +life) and more "situational power" ([why not?] thorns, basic procs, +specific damage, proximity-based bonuses, status-based bonuses, movement-based bonuses etc.) on items. But maybe this is a half-assed idea (some care would be required to ensure that not every tree ends up the same), I don't know.

We'd certainly be circlejerking if we made yet another reference to the affix philosophy thread now, but I do view it as an issue that what makes good weapons and good armor are essentially the same item mods for everyone. Since everyone wants the same items, items are easily and universally valued. Sadly this is the one issue in the game that I intuit will not be getting any attention down the road -- GGG seems to stand by its affix philosophy by more or less taking it for granted.

"

ScrotieMcB wrote:

As if. Unless the item base is Corsair Sword, Vaal Regalia, Thicket Bow, or some other very popular base, you can pretty much discount that possibility entirely. And even then, a lot of them are farmed, not made.

It's not that they're sold for less currency than it took to craft them, it's that they're sold for less currency than it would take to craft them.

Maybe a miscommunication, this is my position as well. But I didn't quote exactly what I was responding to. I'm watching CSPAN and the bitcoin thing right now so I'm somewhat rushed.

@ephetat

Oh lordy do I agree.

hell no.

Should be interesting a kind of AH.

Trade Chat is very polluted and its very boring to keep typing "WTS", "WTB" things. You put your item in the "AH" with a sell value (1 chaos for exemple) or you can buy a item with your offer stuff. Maybe a pack of stuffs together for a item, etc.

I dont see any poblems with that.

And sorry for my bad english. :)

GGG,
Do not ruin this game by adding an AH. I will quit and stop supporting this great game if
one is created.

It will be the death of this game if an AH is put in.

There is just something joyful about meeting people in town and doing a physical trade. It adds to the social aspect a lot.


Thanks,
Hemoglobin

no

I'm confused?! Is this PoE or D2???