(Nov 4) Three-hour Party Hardcore Ladder Race

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Guilherme84 wrote:

I insist, other classes needs aoe skill reward option to level 1.

races are just unfair vs somone ground slamming

while they 1-2 shot 4 mobs, the other classes needs to make like 5-8 shots to kill the same amount of mobs.

Ground Slam is weapon dmg based (2 handed, wich makes its dmg increases a lot and fast for earlie game), and gets buffed for +dmg gear

Fire trap doesnt
Freezing pulse doesnt
Lightning arrow does, but with a much higher mana coast progression and lower aoe range
Split arrow does but it doesnt drop as earlie quest reward
Ethereal knives doesnt and have huge mana progression compared to GS.

The only aoe that seems to be competitive to GS is Lightning Arrow (earlie reward), and Split arrow (if you get luck in drops)

Im not qqing with this post, just trying to put some feedback from what I sense from last races. Most people dont play marauder because they like the class, but because it is the easiest class to race with, and thats something GGG probably dont want: players picking a specific class because theyre first choice is unbalanced compared to other classes.


Sorry for the bad english.

Freezing Pulse
Ice Nova
Cleave
Lightning Arrow

All solid aoe, all available at the very start. The fact that they function or scale differently than groundslam doesnt make them stronger or weaker, just different (which is a good thing).

I see marauders main race advantage as the early life+regeneration nodes which allow a fast, reckless playstyle in a1 and early a2 that would be suicidal for most other classes/builds. I dont see this as much of a problem in solo races, however, since the main rewards are class-specific and other classes/builds can be just as strong for the latter 2/3 to 3/4 of the race.

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KoTao wrote:

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Guilherme84 wrote:

I insist, other classes needs aoe skill reward option to level 1.

races are just unfair vs somone ground slamming

while they 1-2 shot 4 mobs, the other classes needs to make like 5-8 shots to kill the same amount of mobs.

Ground Slam is weapon dmg based (2 handed, wich makes its dmg increases a lot and fast for earlie game), and gets buffed for +dmg gear

Fire trap doesnt
Freezing pulse doesnt
Lightning arrow does, but with a much higher mana coast progression and lower aoe range
Split arrow does but it doesnt drop as earlie quest reward
Ethereal knives doesnt and have huge mana progression compared to GS.

The only aoe that seems to be competitive to GS is Lightning Arrow (earlie reward), and Split arrow (if you get luck in drops)

Im not qqing with this post, just trying to put some feedback from what I sense from last races. Most people dont play marauder because they like the class, but because it is the easiest class to race with, and thats something GGG probably dont want: players picking a specific class because theyre first choice is unbalanced compared to other classes.


Sorry for the bad english.

Freezing Pulse
Ice Nova
Cleave
Lightning Arrow

All solid aoe, all available at the very start. The fact that they function or scale differently than groundslam doesnt make them stronger or weaker, just different (which is a good thing).

I see marauders main race advantage as the early life+regeneration nodes which allow a fast, reckless playstyle in a1 and early a2 that would be suicidal for most other classes/builds. I dont see this as much of a problem in solo races, however, since the main rewards are class-specific and other classes/builds can be just as strong for the latter 2/3 to 3/4 of the race.

well, I think the way they scales dmg is an important thing to consider. Marauders can focus life nodea all the way deom beggining and still does huge area dmg because all they need is a regular 2h weapon with 40 base dmg lvl 12... if they get ipd, its even better.
Freezing pulse or ice nova for exemple has slow dmg progression, and depends on %spell damage increase from passives or supportive gems (wich you can get as reward only in weavers chamber at level 16ish.
If you focus on defenses/life in other classes, you soon will be 5 shooting regular mobs and using all ur mana, slowing down ur speed considerably.

for those who thinks about "well, those skills dont need a weapon at least to get improved dmg", well, this isnt correct, since you still need some %spell dmg wands and the % based in low base dmg is just like nothing.

I do agree this isnt much of a problem since prizes are class based, but im just trying to argue about earlie race class balance here.

Duelist and Shadow also have earlie access to nice life nodes and they still loses in races vs marauders, beucause if they focus on life, they will lack in dmg. And imo, that a skill adjustment fault.

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Guilherme84 wrote:

because all they need is a regular 2h weapon with 40 base dmg lvl 12...

Kindly stop pulling numbers out of your ass.
Mallet (level 12) does 17-35 base damage.

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regeneration nodes

Those are useless in 3h races.

Maradeurs are simply got the advantage they can take more damage in crticial spot due diamond skin and life nodes while other classes need certain items to do good on critical spots.

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Hilbert wrote:

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regeneration nodes

Those are useless in 3h races.

Maradeurs are simply got the advantage they can take more damage in crticial spot due diamond skin and life nodes while other classes need certain items to do good on critical spots.

It's not just that. It's life nodes + powerful aoe ground slam + 2h starting weapons (level 2) doing nearly 20 damage. Starting maul/staff are usable up to about level 10 in Ledge.

Marauder gets not just high life, but high damage, right from the start. When I play it though, it feels about right, and I feel maybe the other classes should get their starts buffed rather than the marauder getting nerfed. I'm not really sure how this may have changed with the recent hybrid class passive tree starts.

Another thing is that despite the strong start, in races, marauders aren't all pooled up in the top 20 -- it is pretty even among all classes.

I think the only thing that really feels broken to me with the marauder in races is that you can get upwards of +75-100% damage mods on weapons starting I think at item level 17, which will last you until the end of the race at level 30. You can find these weapons and start rolling them by the time you are level 13 or so in river crossing. (sledgehammer)

I'm not really sure why the increased physical damage % mods can roll so high.

Seriously GGG, move R.T. away from the life nodes, give me a reason to go with nodes other than life, nerf the IPD% rolls, and give me a reason to use any skills other than phase run/ground slam/heavy strike. Maybe also move resistances away from the life nodes, it just feels a little too easy to play.

Here's the tree that has basically won every marauder race, there is no reason to spec your tree in any other way. Despite being half defensive, you still end up 1shotting everything in cruel ledge. http://www.pathofexile.com/passive-skill-tree/AAAAAQEABI6nnBDClTMSIY8jFgj2HRcVF9YrzcdDMZNJ9zbRK1pFjzw3eE0Bun3biS7NsSBX0TQ918vVF8_TP_B7u4pAGaI3qHabb0JK8N1IdLxH3uCY9Yar1LYfVM0SrI753pAIqHa0Pbuv36DmkKRw8W37pg==

While I'm complaining, I may as well suggest doing something with Ledge that makes it a much less ideal farm spot. Huge groups of slow enemies and no risk. Take Ledge grinding out of the game please.

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dime wrote:

It's life nodes + powerful aoe ground slam + 2h starting weapons (level 2) doing nearly 20 damage. Starting maul/staff are usable up to about level 10 in Ledge.

I think if ground slam and 2h starting weapons were such a factor then the templar would be more competitive with the marauder, and the templar is quite competitive after all the buffs, but I still don't imagine him reaching level 30 in a solo race absent extraordinary luck.

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dime wrote:

Another thing is that despite the strong start, in races, marauders aren't all pooled up in the top 20 -- it is pretty even among all classes.

Not all of the best racers are playing marauders, not a very good sample to refer to.

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dime wrote:

Seriously GGG, move R.T. away from the life nodes, give me a reason to go with nodes other than life, nerf the IPD% rolls, and give me a reason to use any skills other than phase run/ground slam/heavy strike. Maybe also move resistances away from the life nodes, it just feels a little too easy to play.

Even if GGG did all of that, the best racing build would still go to something static that every serious racer adopts in order to win. It's just the nature of competition.

I would say, give all chars the option to choose between all skills (level 1) in the first quest completion.
Sucks when I want to race with bow shadow and I dont get lightning arrow from quests. Or even elemental hit would be nice.
And remove those useless fire traps as earlie reward.
The game seems to force me going meele once I start as shadow =(

And I do agree about RT being too easy to get while focus on hp all the way.

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Guilherme84 wrote:

I would say, give all chars the option to choose between all skills (level 1) in the first quest completion.
Sucks when I want to race with bow shadow and I dont get lightning arrow from quests. Or even elemental hit would be nice.
And remove those useless fire traps as earlie reward.
The game seems to force me going meele once I start as shadow =(

And I do agree about RT being too easy to get while focus on hp all the way.

It takes less than 2 or the 240 minutes to run an extra char through to Lioneyes for the skill gems you need from another class, there are other benefits also.

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duolc wrote:

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Guilherme84 wrote:

I would say, give all chars the option to choose between all skills (level 1) in the first quest completion.
Sucks when I want to race with bow shadow and I dont get lightning arrow from quests. Or even elemental hit would be nice.
And remove those useless fire traps as earlie reward.
The game seems to force me going meele once I start as shadow =(

And I do agree about RT being too easy to get while focus on hp all the way.

It takes less than 2 or the 240 minutes to run an extra char through to Lioneyes for the skill gems you need from another class, there are other benefits also.

I know... and its what I usually do... but its still unfair for people need to run twice in a race. While im still lvl 1, people are lvl 4... and 2 min in a race can make a lot of difference.

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Guilherme84 wrote:

I know... and its what I usually do... but its still unfair for people need to run twice in a race. While im still lvl 1, people are lvl 4... and 2 min in a race can make a lot of difference.

Trust me when I say it doesn't make any difference at all. If you've got your shit down, you'll catch up.

The RNG monster makes a much bigger difference than 2 minutes ever can.