In game trade channel is Completly fucked up

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

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ggnorekthx wrote:

Some good ideas here, although I don't think auctions should be silent. Part of the issue here is a concerted effort to raise prices. If me, my friends, and everyone on my friends list start telling people that "The last three multistrikes I sold were 12 chaos" and then we actively pretend to be selling them in chat, I promise you, if nothing else, someone is going to eventually offer me 10 or 11, even if the gem is honestly only worth 6-8. I see what appears to be this exact situation going on.

I think, with the implementation of a trade board or search feature in game, any items with offers should be visible. People should see what other actual players are actually paying for things. I realize you could still abuse this by having all of your friends place fake bids on stuff, but it would be slightly more difficult, especially on higher priced items. Especially if people see your Multistrike at 12 chaos, and thirty others at 8 or 9, they might be able to more readily see the true value of the item.

I am strongly opposed to this. Searchable bids means sniping. In no time you have a "Price is Right" style degeneration of beating other people's bids by exactly 1 currency; a bid of 5 Exalts and 1 Fusing trumps 5 Exalts. Granted, without knowing the end-time of the auction make sniping harder, but that just means that bots, not humans, will be the final victors.

Players who use common sense will be immune to your tactic. In a system like this, convincing the other players they hold a weak position is often a power play, just as it is in poker; taking this type of chat nonsense at face value is equivalent to just straight-up believing an opponent in a poker hand who claims "I have you beat."

Naturally, some people will fall for it, as people have fallen for every con game ever conceived. A fool and his money are soon parted; oldest story in the book. Is this supposed to convince me the entire system needs to be changed?

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ggnorekthx wrote:

And another thought is - how do new people get in on the silent auctions? If they don't know the range of prices, and prices these days are a lot higher than ever before, they will likely throw out honestly reasonable bids on 5, 10, 15 items, lose out on every single one. Unless the final price is going to be listed or something so people can see a reference. Otherwise, I imagine new players becoming quickly frustrated with trying to guess what a good price is and end up mass overpaying or never trading.

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

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ggnorekthx wrote:

And another thought is - how do new people get in on the silent auctions? If they don't know the range of prices, and prices these days are a lot higher than ever before, they will likely throw out honestly reasonable bids on 5, 10, 15 items, lose out on every single one. Unless the final price is going to be listed or something so people can see a reference. Otherwise, I imagine new players becoming quickly frustrated with trying to guess what a good price is and end up mass overpaying or never trading.

Nope, final price wouldn't be listed, else searchability. The entire point is that deciding what bid to make is supposed to be difficult. If you really want the item, you really want the item, and that's that... but if you want to play the market somehow, or be some kind of bargain hunter, you really would need to know your shit.

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Veta321 wrote:

ggnorekthx raised a good point, it would be difficult to prevent players from bidding on their own items with alts or friends and in effect achieving a reserve. if nobody bids what you'd like, you take your friend's bid. On Diablo 3 my friends and I regularly bought out each other items prematurely to end auctions and free up seller slots. That's sort of the same principle, undermining auction mechanics.

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

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Veta321 wrote:

ggnorekthx raised a good point, it would be difficult to prevent players from bidding on their own items with alts or friends and in effect achieving a reserve. if nobody bids what you'd like, you take your friend's bid. On Diablo 3 my friends and I regularly bought out each other items prematurely to end auctions and free up seller slots. That's sort of the same principle, undermining auction mechanics.

Where did he make that point? I missed it.

Still, it's a good point. A really good one. I'll have to think about it.

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hiloors wrote:

Trading is the most frustrating thing in the game. There is a demand for crappy gear, but it is not in the seller's interest to supply it. Trading takes far too long logistically to make trading items for small sums of the smaller currency worth it for them. As an example, it is also not too uncommon to see shop posts where people say something like they won't bother leaving their map group for any trade worth less than a chaos or two or whatever.

Every character I make reaches a point early on in the game where I think, "Kay, it would be nice to upgrade some of this crappy gear so I can kill vaal, or clear act 3 a little faster, or generally just upgrade my dude. Maybe I can buy an item slightly less crappy for a couple of alts or something." Because, really, how much should a rare level 19 dagger sell for? Or a rare 30 ES hat with like 15 life?

This type of trading happens so rarely now that it just about doesn't happen. This forces new players to deal with the incredibly chaotic trade channel system. This is not a place where new players should be going if you're interested in retaining them as players.

I, as a new player, need to be able to search for and buy that level 19 dagger and then be using it within a minute, all with only input from me, the buyer. This problem will not be solved if I have to wait for this person to leave their exp group and come trade with me.

As it is right now, the trading system is a complex and unnecessary barrier for new players who will realize at some point in the early to mid game that they have to trade for upgrades to progress. These people are going to take one look at what is required to trade right now, say "Fuck that noise, ain't nobody got time for that," and they'll stop playing. The quality-of-life trading issues are why I'm not playing any more. This is a fairly fun game, though, so I might be back later depending on how they address trading. Trading will turn off quite a few people from the game when it releases, though, and that is unfortunate.