Why desync is fixable:
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@OP:
Making the client wait on the server would indeed eliminate desync, but would usher in new problems all its own. It wouldn't so much fix problems as replace them with new ones. Here's the way I look at it: In between receiving communications from the server, the client is essentially in the dark about what's going on in the server version of the game. You can have the client report nothing until it receives another communication — which is just pure waiting — or you can have the client report its best prediction of what's going on in the server version of the game — which is waiting plus educated guesses which are right the vast majority of the time, yet sometimes lies. But neither of these are any replacement for simply receiving more communications from the server. Waiting, educated guessing, whichever — either is bullshit until the server tells you what's really going on. After a few hundred milliseconds of latency, both are like trying to use band-aids on a wound that needs a tourniquet. There is no suitable replacement for lower latency and higher effective bandwidth. The "solution for desync" isn't about what to do during latency, but about eliminating latency through leaner, meaner message delivery and more, better hardware. When Stephen Colbert was killed by HYDRA's Project Insight in 2014, the comedy world lost a hero. Since his life model decoy isn't up to the task, please do not mistake my performance as political discussion. I'm just doing what Steve would have wanted. Last edited by ScrotieMcB#2697 on Sep 12, 2013, 6:20:12 AM
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" Others and myself already valued the possible problems and i, for my part, am certain that i would prefer a (little as possible) STABLE delay on any action, than this arbitrary desync. Last edited by DE3me#2347 on Sep 12, 2013, 6:36:54 AM
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"I'm not saying that preference isn't valid; I'm saying that the choice comes very close to not mattering. You're saying chocolate ice cream is better than vanilla, when the real issue is a lack of refrigeration and it's all melted by the time you're served, regardless of your choice of flavor. Simply put, you're not attacking the real problem... but to be fair, a predictive client isn't attacking the real problem either. Let us not forget that waiting sucks too. When Stephen Colbert was killed by HYDRA's Project Insight in 2014, the comedy world lost a hero. Since his life model decoy isn't up to the task, please do not mistake my performance as political discussion. I'm just doing what Steve would have wanted. Last edited by ScrotieMcB#2697 on Sep 12, 2013, 6:44:29 AM
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" Well, you say that the real problem are the servers and bandwidth, but, if you read the manifesto, you will see that even with the highest bandwidth and the best servers you will probably have desync due to the system of guessing that is used. |
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"Assuming rapid enough message delivery, it wouldn't really be an issue. A rubberband after 100 ms is barely noticeable, much in the same way that the client freezing for 100 ms is barely noticeable. What is killing the game is that the client does not update positions even after seconds without an update. Right now, you can desync for 2 seconds, enough time to "teleport" into a room you never meant to enter. This would be just as huge a problem if the client froze for 2 seconds while waiting on the message. When Stephen Colbert was killed by HYDRA's Project Insight in 2014, the comedy world lost a hero. Since his life model decoy isn't up to the task, please do not mistake my performance as political discussion. I'm just doing what Steve would have wanted. Last edited by ScrotieMcB#2697 on Sep 12, 2013, 7:10:57 AM
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I've only skimmed the rest of the thread, but here's my opinion.
My ping is stable at 60 ms and I constantly experience desync in POE. League of Legends and SC2 play fine for me with no issues at all. If I had to experience a half-second delay before every one of my actions, including moving around, etc., INSTEAD of having the client feed me lies all the time and frequently being out of position/warping into hostile groups of enemies to my death, I definitely would take that. But it's extremely hard to believe that delays would actually reach up to a half-second with 60 ms ping. Chris's writing in the desync manifesto truly makes it seem like he is handwaving away a completely viable solution to desync. Whether he truly is - I don't know, I'm no netcode programmer. But he's not giving a very good impression. Need game info? Check out the Wiki at: https://www.poewiki.net/ Contact support@grindinggear.com for account issues. Check out How to Report Bugs + Post Images at: https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/18347 Last edited by adghar#1824 on Sep 12, 2013, 7:31:58 AM
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" I think that, as a somewhat community based game, that they hopefully rethink that matter and maybe test on something like that, considering that it would be the better choice for 80 or 90% of the players (the other 10-20% with bad connection areas and maybe not as good experience). Said that, it would be nice if we get some feedback on this, because that is what the whole manifesto thing is for (taking feedback from the community and probably rethink some problems). Last edited by DE3me#2347 on Sep 12, 2013, 9:02:56 AM
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it must be said, while desync is horrible, I can watch an hd movie stream from lovefilm, download large files and play PoE with absolutely zero lag at the same time, feels like a single player game running on my pc. This is an often under rated achievement of this game. Does it make up for desync? I dunno, tbh I don't really desync that much, but I also don't play hardcore because of desync. Would I play hardcore on a lagable net connection to asia or where ever the servers are hosted? Probably not either.
5 to 50 ping is lovely on games, 140+ ping and you notice it, you are disadvantaged, my connection to an Australian fps server is about 450 last time I tried and virtually unplayable. I love all you people on the forums, we can disagree but still be friends and respect each other :)
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Don't forget when comparing this game to SC2 or D3 you must realize that Blizzard has the best and brightest coding for them and most game developers would kill to have that highly optimized code. No offense to GGG in anyway at all and I imagine they would also kill just to spend 1 day with Blizzards code wizards. Switching to what OP suggests doesn't mean PoE will run as smoothly as D3 or SC2 does simply because of the limitations GGG has with manpower. It's just reality that some game developers cannot produce games that perform as well as others.
Desync sucks but switching the whole thing is just as likely to make things worse. |
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" You realize that SC2 or D3 aren't the only games out there that run without any problems? Think about LoL that started small (a bit like PoE), but got really huge in no time. Do you think that would've been possible with something like desync or constant laggs? I don't think so. I think PoE could even grow tremendously without the whole desync problem. You can see so many people frustrated quitting... Or if someone asks me for a game, it will always be like "PoE is a really nice Diablo like game, but unfortunally you have to be pretty resistent against frustration, because of these bugs you can't do shit about..." Last edited by DE3me#2347 on Sep 12, 2013, 10:43:46 AM
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