The Current Fire Trap / Traps Update: Give +1 Additional Trap (4) to 'Use' for Trappers by Default

I have been a Trapper since I began playing PoE, a Fire Trapper. It was fun and effective, but not so much to get slammed with a nerf.

Why was the -20% penalty put in anyway? Just because the recharge duration was lowered by 1 second? That really doesn't balance out to anywhere near the 6 traps Trappers used to be able to lay on the ground.

Before the trap changes in Patch Version 0.11.5 I would have to use the Flammability Curse and 4 to 5, or sometimes all 6 Fire Traps to take down tough mobs and single-target bosses in Merciless.

I was dealing around 4,250+ damage per trap (now 3400 damage) at the time. Now, Fire Traps are under-powered in that I don't have enough traps to use at once, and the damage is more lackluster, even after I've gotten all the Trap & Elemental/Fire Damage nodes.

Two balanced changes to make to Fire Traps:

1. Reduce the -20% penalty on initial blast damage by 5% (-15% instead)

2. Give players who use traps (by default) at least 1 additional trap we can use (4 traps total)

OR reduce the duration traps recharge by a 1/2 second (3 ½ seconds instead of 4 seconds)

The above suggestion(s) would apply to all traps, including but not limited to, Fire Traps.

Note: While there is a trap node that allows one additional trap to be placed on the ground, that is not the same as being able to use an additional trap.

Please, at least make these two small changes.



Thank You.
HeavyMetalGear

I agree with the +1 trap node suggestion, and have made similar (almost identical, actually) suggestions before in both the keystone forum and one or more of the trap threads.

Most (or perhaps all) pvm trap builds are using the traps as grenades, bandit battles aside. Few players actually lay out traps preemptively, and most who do are doing so in pvp, where invisible instant death mines all over the floor also happen to be one of the most annoying and unbalanced aspects of that mode.

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KoTao wrote:

I agree with the +1 trap node suggestion, and have made similar (almost identical, actually) suggestions before in both the keystone forum and one or more of the trap threads.

Most (or perhaps all) pvm trap builds are using the traps as grenades, bandit battles aside. Few players actually lay out traps preemptively, and most who do are doing so in pvp, where invisible instant death mines all over the floor also happen to be one of the most annoying and unbalanced aspects of that mode.

What you seem to be agreeing to is not what my suggestion states. My suggestion is to either give Trappers +1 additional trap to use by default, or lower the recharge duration by a 1/2 second (3 ½ seconds to recharge instead of 4.)

Hmm, seems i somehow read that as +1 trap from the node instead of by default. Whoops!

Anyway i think the base trap count has always been fine, and that the cooldown is actually perfect now.

Fire Traps have a 3 second cooldown, by the time I've thrown my 3 Fire Traps I have to wait about one second to throw the 4th. Not sure there is much reason to boost the default trap count to 4 (it does increase burst damage by quite a lot).

I personally don't think the damage nerf was really neccessary though, wouldnt mind if they removed that altogether :) Down to -15% from -20% isen't really going to change anything noticable.

As for Single Target Fire Trap isen't the greatest, but as a Trapper can't you easily implement Bear Trap into your build?

Nope, sorry, even as a fellow trap lover I just can't agree, direct damage was too strong.

It was never supposed to be a nuke but a DoT. Damage is strong because it was supposed to be useable as a support skill even without heavily speccing into fire. Spell damage interaction and Searing Touch made it pretty much broken, it should never work with spell damage, just like bear trap doesn't. I'd even further neuter direct damage to detonate dead flat damage level but double the burning to compensate.

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raics wrote:

Nope, sorry, even as a fellow trap lover I just can't agree, direct damage was too strong.

It was never supposed to be a nuke but a DoT. Damage is strong because it was supposed to be useable as a support skill even without heavily speccing into fire. Spell damage interaction and Searing Touch made it pretty much broken, it should never work with spell damage, just like bear trap doesn't. I'd even further neuter direct damage to detonate dead flat damage level but double the burning to compensate.

I see what you did there. You're just saying you're a trapper when you're not in an attempt to make a 'qq argument' in disguise --- quite possibly because of PvP --- by saying Fire Traps are / were too OP when they are / were not OP (before and after the Patch.) Anyone who is an avid Trapper with mediocre or end-game gear would know the difference between Fire Trap's effectiveness before and after the Patch. You offer(ed) no arithmetic in your comment. but I did in my OP.

On another note, if certain skills in PvP are so problematic to certain players, to avoid QQing, GGG should make PvP-only versions of certain skill gems turning into their PvP-state when players enter PvP battles. That way, the PvE-only version of certain skill gems won't be required to be nerfed because of PvP reasons. It's ridiculous. Nerfs to skill gems in PvP meant for human players does not always result in effectiveness for PvE. More often than not, these nerfs to skill gems revolved around PvP, in turn, affecting PvE, makes certain skill gems obsolete.

It also makes no sense when saying Fire Trap's damage should not scale with Spell Damage. It is fire damage (based off an element like other element-based skill gems) so why should Spell Damage not count toward the damage Fire Traps gives off? Meanwhile, Bear Trap is the literal trap in PoE in that it stuns the enemy and deals its own base damage. Bear Trap's damage is not magical. Bear Trap's damage is the equivalent to someone's foot getting stuck in a real Bear Trap in real life, ceasing the enemy's movement. I mean, come on . . . it's a Bear Trap. It doesn't require a big Kaboom! in order for players to understand the idea of a Bear Trap.

On another note --- cite your sources --- even IF Fire Trap was intended to be a DoT-only Skill Gem, ask yourself why GGG included nuke damage to Fire Trap. I will tell you why; they added in the nuke damage because the DoT by itself was lacking in that the Skill Gem wasn't significant enough for end-game. Even with the current nuke damage output (now lower,) DoT, Chance to Ignite and Critical Chance, Fire Trap is still borderline or below borderline for end-game.

Furthermore, Fire Traps having nuke damage isn't really far-fetched. It would be a very boring skill and quite useless without nuke damage.

Conclusively, I have proof --- where are your numbers? --- to prove the current DPS output of Fire Trap is even more worse for end-game after the Patch.

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AveiMil wrote:

Fire Traps have a 3 second cooldown, by the time I've thrown my 3 Fire Traps I have to wait about one second to throw the 4th. Not sure there is much reason to boost the default trap count to 4 (it does increase burst damage by quite a lot).

I personally don't think the damage nerf was really neccessary though, wouldnt mind if they removed that altogether :) Down to -15% from -20% isen't really going to change anything noticable.

As for Single Target Fire Trap isen't the greatest, but as a Trapper can't you easily implement Bear Trap into your build?

When you're playing end-game maps, throwing them as fast I do on just 1 hard mob and single-target bosses, all three traps in 1 ½ second or less, yeah, a 4th trap does help a lot by about 3400+ damage (currently, plus the DoT,) especially if Chance to Ignite and Critical Strike Chance for Spells kicks in. My critical chance for spells is around 380%.

P.S. You are wrong. Fire Trap is a nice Skill Gem, granted you have seen its full potential with the right gear on, and that you revolved your whole Skill Tree around it.

And no, I cannot just put Bear Trap into my build as it would be useless in my setup. All my Skill Gems are of other types of gems that suit my build better than the overrated Bear Trap.

I find all of this very hard to believe, as i can oneshot anything except certain bosses such as piety on merciless with a single fireball. You have 3 times the base damage on fire traps. 3 times, that is no little difference, the hit is just massive.

I do agree, in particular after the change to traps shared cooldown, that a node which gives you an additional trap would be great for trappers. +1

Fire Trap should be much less impact damage, but much more damage over time on the ground, that is my opinion. It should not be an overpowered version of fireball that does not even reflect and hits 3 times as hard, it should make the whole area burn for heavy damage instead.

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Crackmonster wrote:

I find all of this very hard to believe, as i can oneshot anything except certain bosses such as piety on merciless with a single fireball. You have 3 times the base damage on fire traps. 3 times, that is no little difference, the hit is just massive.

I do agree, in particular after the change to traps shared cooldown, that a node which gives you an additional trap would be great for trappers. +1

Fire Trap should be much less impact damage, but much more damage over time on the ground, that is my opinion. It should not be an overpowered version of fireball that does not even reflect and hits 3 times as hard, it should make the whole area burn for heavy damage instead.

Let's not compare Fireball to Fire Trap. You seem to forget that Fireball --- while it does deal 360 less damage at level 20 compared to Fire Trap --- does not have a cooldown. It relies on having decent mana that replenishes fast to keep casting it, which is not hard at all to obtain as a caster via gear. On another note (I forget which Support Gem) more than one Fireball can be projected at once toward enemies (and hit behind) with just a single use.

Additionally, skill gems like Fireball can be made even more fast and effective when boosted by Faster Casting and the Haste aura. Using Faster Casting and Haste for Fire Trap is senseless because there's a wait time after throwing all your traps, whereas Fireball always dishes out consistent damage with no wait times. To go even furthermore, by the time Fire Trap would take 9 seconds to recharge all traps, or 3 seconds to recharge 1 trap, Fireball will already have dealt more damage than Fire Trap, or an equal amount of damage.

In a nutshell, with Fire Traps, you have to be more careful how and where you use them vs. skill gems like Fireball that are more trigger-happy-friendly. There is the difference.

P.S. Why a Skill Tree Node for a +1 Trap use? I am not suggesting an actual node for a +1 Trap use. Turning the idea into a node will just waste a trapper's skill points just to obtain it when they can instead invest those skill points into Damage or Life nodes, especially Life nodes.

The idea, again, is to give trappers +1 additional trap to use by default. It is more effective, and at the same time, trappers will still be dealing lesser damage than before the Patch.