Four Points of Flask Feedback

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MrMisterMissedHer wrote:

Even if it's a strong iron skin, going from little or no AR, you will practically gain more from a granite than an AR user. Probably even with acrobatics. Besides, you do get EV mod to counter that, at the very least.

I really think there needs to be an EV flask though, and that both the granite and EV version should be tiered. Granites are incredibly strong at early game and rapidly fall off later in the game, even for an AR stacking user, the scaling doesn't keep up to even maintain relative parity.

My experimental Acrobatics character uses this:



I was thinking about rolling one with eva mod, but I came to conclusion, that there is no point as its better to have 3K armor than some addition to already high evasion.

It is aimed to be additional protection for those hits which came through evasion. Of course 3K AR is not much, but it's still better than nothing, at least for small/average hits.

And BTW if we are to multiply flask diversity, what about flask which raise block chance/max block chance? As 6/8 of my characters use shields, it would be worthwhile to consider to have such flask.

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Autocthon wrote:

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PolarisOrbit wrote:

Granite Flasks only interact with 1 out of 3 armor types. So it's not relevant to 2/3 of players unless it's really good. If it's really good then what is the progression doing- making it less good? But it needs to be good to be worth the progression. It's a Catch 22 if you try to apply progression. I like them being just 1 tier because they are specialized to just 1 armor type. Sure, it's powerful enough to make that armor type relevant to everyone, but that's actually good. That means it was successfully designed as a flask for everyone to use, just the way I like it. If the flask is specialized for just one group then I would argue it should be a skill instead (usually), and if it can't cut it as a skill then just as an aura or passive node/keystone.

EV and ES scale better from a Granite than an AR user does.

So actually Granite is more relevant to ES and EV than AR. Unless it's a strong Iron Skin.

Exactly! I was arguing that this is a good thing.

I haven't read your full OP yet, only your Liquor Flask suggestion I was brought here to read.

I rather like your spin on the idea (it is flavorful, and also more likely to be considered than extra gore). My only criticism is that more attention needs to be given to flask charges used, if for no greater reason than because they are an inherent quality of flasks, and such qualities should be made relevant. Perhaps more importantly, things that modify those qualities should likewise be made relevant. Given the duration of the flask, 30 max charges could easily be refilled without effort, and only 10 charges used means the charges are, well, irrelevant; the flask will simply always be active. That is why I settled with 60/80 for my suggestion, but even that I suspect is too low, as it too could be run nigh endlessly without Ample or such mods. Those mods should have at least some reason to be rolled, and even be rerolled with the desired suffix, because the desired prefix wasn't found.

Otherwise, whatever the base may be, I would really like to see a flask added that has no apparent benefit, but a generous duration.

I love the idea of Liquor Flasks, but perhaps give them a more serious implicit debuff than reduced light radius.

As for resistance flasks, I often find myself lacking one or the other resist in endgame, or want a way to reach near immunity versus a certain element. For this reason I often use Topaz or Ruby flasks, Sapphire on builds where I don't have freeze immunity. Given, they are prioritized last of all my flasks, but if I have room for it I often use a resistance flask.

I'll agree they are situational, but overall underrated. However I like the idea of adding the elemental ailment removal as an implicit to these resistance flasks, meanwhile removing it from other flasks. It will force us to make more choices in regards to flasks. :)

I agree with the equation between Demon Hunter's Discipline and PoE's flask mechanics, but I'm not sure that all the specific instances of escape/defense/CC skills that DH uses would necessarily be best as flasks in PoE. The caltrops mechanic strikes me as particularly ungainly for a flask, given that all flasks up to this point have been effects exclusive to the player. I agree that there are a lot of "untapped design spaces" for skills like this, but there's already a considerable amount of pressure on flask slots as it is, and some of these ideas seem more naturally suited to skill gems anyway. While I like the way the 5 slot limit creates tension, I fear that some of these ability flasks would simply be crowded out by the far more general and useful Quicksilvers and Granites.

Not that socketing arrangements are in a much better position, but that's an argument for another time.

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yhateful wrote:

I love the idea of Liquor Flasks, but perhaps give them a more serious implicit debuff than reduced light radius.

"(Character) walks with a spark of madness." If you get my meaning ;)

I agree with a lot of the ops points. Demon Hunter was actually the best designed character in D3, by far, very underpowered compared to the other classes with similar dps but in terms of mechanics... it actually had some, and they were pretty cool.


Regarding res flasks, I do use them. My ek marauder has over 20k armour, so hes generally got more than a lot of people have post granite flask. For this reason I take an amethyst flask of iron skin rather than a second granite flask unless Im facing a particular map boss, in which case I swap it for a specific res flask of iron skin. My ci melee witch has 2 granites and 2 res flasks of iron skin because shes an aegis user and it tends to be elemental spells that do damage to her, most physical enemies are using attacks and suffer the full force of her block chance.

but yes, they could be developed a little more, its a somewhat untapped area that could potentially offer a lot in terms of mechanics and fun to be had. I like the liquor flask idea, its great.

Great suggestions all in all.