Four Points of Flask Feedback

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tmaciak wrote:

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Flickerflare wrote:

but because players are forced to cap resistances anyway to survive general day to day gameplay the value of the flask is made highly irrelevant by the actions players are forced to take. An evaluation on that aspect would help resolve more than just a utility flask

And making harder to cap reses and forcing to carry out 3 flask in place of life/mana/granite flask will help?

I will not help and as melee can't afford to don't have not capped reses nor waste flask space, they still be capping reses it will be just more costly.

On my 8 characters, I can't imagine do not have capped reses past mid A2M and I tend to cap them in A1M. And in case of melee it usually means 78%, the best 81%.

And yes, I can agree that reses flask are crappy and not usable. But my solution is, don't use it or remove, not to force players to use it.

Not at all what I'm suggesting. I in no way am suggesting that resistances be made more difficult to get without altering the damage it does.

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Flickerflare wrote:

If elemental damage was not scaled to the expectation that all players walk around with maxed resistances, and resistances became more difficult to gain, the game could be scaled to run much more efficiently around 30-40% resistances, which would give these flasks far more power when they are to be drunk like a pepsi in LA.

This would mean I'd be suggesting that, for example, resistances be in a similar place as chaos resistance, without being all the way to the hell side of the spectrum they are on now.

30% chaos resistance on an ES build (without CI) feels quite livable, and capping the resistance isn't made a neccessity. In an area that I know does much chaos damage, I take a with me.

If other resistances were in a similar place, where 40% resistance would be considered a high number, then these flasks would -more- than pull their weight, and we'd finally be opened up to tanking having viable risk/reward returns; instead of all characters being required to be ultra tanks (resulting in the "path of life nodes" notoriety we've gained.)

We're on the same page, resistance flasks are generally bad, we simply disagree on why this is/how to resolve the issue. Melee can not afford to not cap resistances, nor can archers or spellcasters. The issue is, you should. be able to afford to do that, taking a resistance flask with you where more res is necessary to boost livability. (like before a piety fight)

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Flickerflare wrote:

30% chaos resistance on an ES build (without CI) feels quite livable, and capping the resistance isn't made a neccessity. In an area that I know does much chaos damage, I take a

with me.

The problem is, that we have 3 ele resistances and in maps you can find all 3 a threat in single instance. Of course there are some bosses with known damage but eventually, you will end carrying all 3 flasks.

BTW Most of my characters have -60% chaos res and my amethyst flask is sitting in stash for ages, it's better to ouregen chaos than carry flask...

And chaos damage is designed to hinder energy shield builds, not life builds, so if that's your experience with it, then that shows chaos damage is working as intended, I think.

I'm certain if capping resistances was not a required part of building a successful build, the prevalence of all 3 elements in the same map would not be as much of a dangerous killer as it is now, and would not force one to take along all 3 flasks, just as one doesn't feel the need now either.

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Flickerflare wrote:

I'm certain if capping resistances was not a required part of building a successful build, the prevalence of all 3 elements in the same map would not be as much of a dangerous killer as it is now, and would not force one to take along all 3 flasks, just as one doesn't feel the need now either.

So, simply speaking, you want something like current situation with physical damage but with ele spike damage? And we see how it works for phys dmg, quite terrible IMO... everybody anyway is gearing for worst possibility, so I don't believe that it will change anything for map grade characters, but probably life of players who stops after Merciless Piety will be easier.

Of course players are going to mini-max, tell me something that isn't obvious. Even if we never needed more than 2000 life to survive a hit, there would be people running around with 6000-7000 HP, because they can. The difference is that it would no longer be required, so not everyone will do it.

Physical Damage was handled very poorly because Physical Damage has a very flawed formula. Elemental is a lot simpler and more difficult to fuck up. I'm fully of the belief that no character should be forced to cap their resistances to have basic survivability. Capped resistances should be something that players strive for, but not because it is forced if they wish to survive, and currently, it's pretty much forced by damage output being scaled to the assumption we at least have 75%. Overscaling is the issue, and resolving that would go a long way towards making utility flasks useful, while opening up better options for dealing with elemental ailments.

So yes, simply speaking I want things scaled down so that capping the resistance value does not feel required; in addition to this capping resistances should be more difficult than it currently is, too. This would make it an effort to reach cap, without forcing all players to get to that cap to even play maps safely.

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ScrotieMcB wrote:

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Flickerflare wrote:

Wait...
So am I really the only person that uses the resistance flasks?

I get most of my data about what other people do in the endgame by watching streamers. And they don't use them. I'm not sure if that's a good representative sample or not.

It is not. The best players in the game frequently use these flasks to mitigate and/or offset dangerous affixes on maps. Unfortunately this does not carry down towards lower-skilled players (not all high level players are skilled. Even 90+ players).

Look at Magaera from Crematorium. People moaned and cried about how overtuned she was. Incidentally, our group was running her from day 1 (post-patch) with zero problems. All it took was a single Ruby Flask.


Utility flasks are exactly as their name means. Utility. Just like how people think Frost Wall is useless. Think again. There's a reason why I am able to do the most difficult Shrines in the game with no Kaom's Heart both pre and post Life patch.

I was watching a streamer the other day who recommended a Topaz or Sapphire flask for panic situations.

Also, I think Quicksilver wouldn't benefit from additional sizes, but Granites would if the sizes were locked to levels. Resist flasks follow the same design as resist affixes, and shouldn't have levels.

Though I have no problem with giving second-run characters an "IWIN" button against physical damage. Same for "IWIN" against elemental.

Baking ailment cures into the flasks would be cool. Hate having to roll the effects, I'd rather be forced to use one kind of flasks I know I'll get the bonus from than roll it on other flasks.

It's been some time since I last played with CI, so this is feedback based on playing life chars:
No room for resistance flasks is why I don't use them, it is that easy. Two insta healing pots, one over time, one Granite, one Quicksilver Flask. No Granite on my Evasion + Acrobatics chars, would leave room for one flask. How should I squeeze shock and freeze protection into that if they put the "dispels [element ailment]" affix on the resistance flasks only?

I always carry an Amethyst as I find the extra chaos res makes a huge difference against some map bosses or packs of magic chaos dealing mobs.

But I make it do double duty by rolling it anti-curse, so I have use for it even if there are no chaos mobs present:


I always carry a granite if the character is an armor user.

As for Topaz/Ruby/Sapphire, I normally have no use for them other than Topaz to further overcap resists against Temple piety.

In general, I find we don't have enough belt slots even when a character doesn't need to carry mana OR life flasks.

Also I think there should be a single All Elemental Resistance flask instead of Topaz/Ruby/Sapphire... then I might find it worthwhile to carry one.

An "all elements" flask would be effectively mandatory if it existed. The only thing preventing the current element flasks from being mandatory is the fact that teh ytake u pa precious life flask spot.

On the other hand if you have mana leech that isn't craptastic you can go HP - HP - Quicksilver - Granite - Choice

Or if you don;t need granite (because some people don't) HP - HP - Quick - Choice - Choice