Official Blender Post! Lets theory craft for 1.2! 123k Cleave DPS!

"

Shodokan123 wrote:

3 APS is very low especially for a physical cleave build with multi strike and 93% attack speed... that makes NO sense to me.

I think you missed the part where I asked: "I have over 3 attacks per second on my character sheet (on the offensive tab)...does that mean I have 9 APS when I factor in that multristrike attacks 3 times?"

That is the only way I can figure out that people have 10+ attacks per second...as of right now I would say I fall into the "9 APS" camp, moving towards 10+ with more IAS.

"

Shodokan123 wrote:

93% attack speed without haste is just pointless. Anything more than 70% from talents is just too much in my opinion and you can get more damage/survivability instead.

What exactly do you mean by that? Do you mean "instead of putting points in attack speed, just run Haste" ?? If I can't run haste /w current set up, then putting points into attack speed would be correct, no? I am not going to drop Determination, Purity, or Hatred for Haste. I may not be able to take the 2x mana reserve nodes for a bit either.

In any case, thanks for the input! I am aware of the interplay between damage, speed, crit chance, and crit multi from both PoE and rockin a murderous Barbarian in D3. They all play into each other...and I definitely wrecked myself a few times on phys reflect when I was running this guy with power charges and a 48% chance to crit lol.

"

Halezor wrote:

"

Shodokan123 wrote:

3 APS is very low especially for a physical cleave build with multi strike and 93% attack speed... that makes NO sense to me.

I think you missed the part where I asked: "I have over 3 attacks per second on my character sheet (on the offensive tab)...does that mean I have 9 APS when I factor in that multristrike attacks 3 times?"

That is the only way I can figure out that people have 10+ attacks per second...as of right now I would say I fall into the "9 APS" camp, moving towards 10+ with more IAS.

"

Shodokan123 wrote:

93% attack speed without haste is just pointless. Anything more than 70% from talents is just too much in my opinion and you can get more damage/survivability instead.

What exactly do you mean by that? Do you mean "instead of putting points in attack speed, just run Haste" ?? If I can't run haste /w current set up, then putting points into attack speed would be correct, no? I am not going to drop Determination, Purity, or Hatred for Haste. I may not be able to take the 2x mana reserve nodes for a bit either.

In any case, thanks for the input! I am aware of the interplay between damage, speed, crit chance, and crit multi from both PoE and rockin a murderous Barbarian in D3. They all play into each other...and I definitely wrecked myself a few times on phys reflect when I was running this guy with power charges and a 48% chance to crit lol.

I'm saying the damage boost from the attack speed is not worth the point investment in comparison to survivability you can get elsewhere or actual damage% you can get elsewhere.

You can get a no socket alphahowl for a few GCP and put that on when you cast your auras (if they are not in your helm) to get 4 auras on your mana if you have the ability to get soul. If not then no i'd not drop any of those for haste (which honestly isn't that good and the only reason I use it is because it is basically free dps and move speed)


---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Using the same napkin math as the above post (your crit build vs a non crit build)

Assuming your weapons hit for 150 and both around the same speed @ 12 APS (for math sake) and 25% crit (excluding increased damage % from talents and including crit multiplier - which was 20% iirc from your talents)

Weapon 1: 150, 150, 150, 150, 150, 150, 150, 150, 150, 255, 255, 255, 255 = 2200
Weapon 2: 150, 150, 150, 150, 150, 150, 150, 150, 150, 255, 255, 255, 255 = 2200

It essentially turns your attack into a 18.3 attack per second attack, but you lose out on Over 100% weapon damage for sure. (more if pure sword or axe build)

So if you assume a 100% increase over a base of say 100% weapon damage you get (200%)

100% with crit: 2400(non crit) + 1836 (crit with 20% multiplier for 180% damage total) = 4236 per weapon

200% non crit: 5400 (12 x 450) per weapon


You will need: 290% critical strike multiplier minimum from gear to make up the difference in damage (20% from talents = 1.2* 150% increased crit making it 180%)

However this is not how crit works overall as the modifiers on weapons/amulets increase your crit chance of the weapons you are using.

So you need to get a crit chance of 50% in order to get the same damage.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
On another note; It is possible to roll tyrannical and emperor's on the same item if i'm not mistaken?

Cool man...thanks for the work on that. I've been speculating but hadn't put any pen to paper yet. But that is what I wondering: Is taking less, smoother, damage better than having the chance to deal some bigger numbers with crit. The only reason I'm in this boat and why my tree goes for that mana leech node is because I also wanted the power charge node and all the crit nodes next to it...my guy was built around critting...although in retrospect a CI Shadow /w dual claws or daggers would have been much much better...I just chalk it up to play an learn ;)

Funnily enough though, when I ran my duelist as a dual wield sword power charge on crit character (5 power charges) I actually had 555% critical strike multiplier with Abyssus (142%) on and when I used my Incr. Crit Damage gem in my 6L (no longer wearing) I got up to like 657% total multiplier. It got a little nutty...but it was inconsistent though, even with like 48% chance to crit with all power charges up. I would sometime one shot huge packs, and sometimes I would have to swing more than a few times to wear them down.

"

Halezor wrote:

Cool man...thanks for the work on that. I've been speculating but hadn't put any pen to paper yet. But that is what I wondering: Is taking less, smoother, damage better than having the chance to deal some bigger numbers with crit. The only reason I'm in this boat and why my tree goes for that mana leech node is because I also wanted the power charge node and all the crit nodes next to it...my guy was built around critting...although in retrospect a CI Shadow /w dual claws or daggers would have been much much better...I just chalk it up to play an learn ;)

Funnily enough though, when I ran my duelist as a dual wield sword power charge on crit character (5 power charges) I actually had 555% critical strike multiplier with Abyssus (142%) on and when I used my Incr. Crit Damage gem in my 6L (no longer wearing) I got up to like 657% total multiplier. It got a little nutty...but it was inconsistent though, even with like 48% chance to crit with all power charges up. I would sometime one shot huge packs, and sometimes I would have to swing more than a few times to wear them down.

I feel the problem with crit is that you cannot predict the damage for reflect packs. You almost need CI with vaal pact so you instantly leech the HP back. With crit reflect can be an issue. I'd say the damage output can be about the same or even better, but the gear is incredibly hard to find and you are sacrificing a lot of flexibility in order to do so.

For that tanky onslaught build, does anyone know why the following are being skipped in early game:

16% attack speed and 24% physical damage when dual wielding (5 points, early Duelist tree)
4% attack speed and 34% physical when dual wielding (3 points, Gallantry)
Steel Skin (3 points, 52% increased armor)


It just seems with the build only including 44% increased armor, 37% increased attack speed and 145% increased damage that these might be useful. Granted, I may be missing something.

"

x2P wrote:

"

Halezor wrote:

Cool man...thanks for the work on that. I've been speculating but hadn't put any pen to paper yet. But that is what I wondering: Is taking less, smoother, damage better than having the chance to deal some bigger numbers with crit. The only reason I'm in this boat and why my tree goes for that mana leech node is because I also wanted the power charge node and all the crit nodes next to it...my guy was built around critting...although in retrospect a CI Shadow /w dual claws or daggers would have been much much better...I just chalk it up to play an learn ;)

Funnily enough though, when I ran my duelist as a dual wield sword power charge on crit character (5 power charges) I actually had 555% critical strike multiplier with Abyssus (142%) on and when I used my Incr. Crit Damage gem in my 6L (no longer wearing) I got up to like 657% total multiplier. It got a little nutty...but it was inconsistent though, even with like 48% chance to crit with all power charges up. I would sometime one shot huge packs, and sometimes I would have to swing more than a few times to wear them down.

I feel the problem with crit is that you cannot predict the damage for reflect packs. You almost need CI with vaal pact so you instantly leech the HP back. With crit reflect can be an issue. I'd say the damage output can be about the same or even better, but the gear is incredibly hard to find and you are sacrificing a lot of flexibility in order to do so.

Thats very true...I feel I was about 1/2 way to having a full set of solid crit gear. The extra damage taken from Abyssus was a lot to overcome sometimes, but the extra power was too good to pass on haha. I may look into some crit again after I move to the Mara area, but I think I am done /w the shadow area for now. I did have Vaal pact as a part of my build once. Taking that along /w going up into the shadow tree really took a lot of points, but the access to life was great and the instant leech was awesome. I never specifically tested it against reflect though...oops!

All that said, my DPS, clear speed, and ability to fight big one-shotters is all vastly improved since I switched to BoR an spec'd into only 7 new damage nodes so far...doing the full respec shortly...very curious to see how it feels compared to full crit, semi (right now), and then pure dmg/as.

Hey x2p when is the video coming?

I just broke down and spent 4 chaos and 2 scouring to buy Multistrike on Onslaught, so I could 3L cleave (I'm only level 35 or so, in A1 Cruel).

Holy.


Fuck.

Went from just under 3 Attacks Per second to 5.6. Wow.

I can't wait to see what 11 APS is like.

"

ryatwo wrote:

Hey x2p when is the video coming?

It will be tonight, sorry for the delay.

Just a note:

People are starting to ask obscene prices for Soul Taker on Onslaught. Just saw one with a buyout of 16 Exalt.