What it means to have good defenses as melee

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Daefecator wrote:

What if you don't want to, but just encounter it - think of a rogue exile?

Flee and come back when you're ready? Melee isn't at any particular disadvantage on this score.

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dynia6666 wrote:

get 7k es and you are set

This suggestion is in line with 'get ranged ability' to attack with and you are set with even 5k. Get sporked - and you are ok with having like only 4k.

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Incompetent wrote:

Flee and come back when you're ready? Melee isn't at any particular disadvantage on this score.

The number of portals a map has is limited to 6, so constant fleeing is not always an option. Why playing a pussy-style melee build, when ranged builds are actually significantly more durable due to not being in a melee range first of all?

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Daefecator wrote:

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dynia6666 wrote:

get 7k es and you are set

This suggestion is in line with 'get ranged ability' to attack with and you are set with even 5k. Get sporked - and you are ok with having like only 4k.

Except that you want approaches that leave nothing to chance. Even totem users can get ambushed and 1-shotted if they encounter a mob that is ultra-mobile and does crazy damage. If it's not ultra-mobile, then it's your choice to let it hit you, whatever weapons you use.

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Incompetent wrote:

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Daefecator wrote:

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dynia6666 wrote:

get 7k es and you are set

This suggestion is in line with 'get ranged ability' to attack with and you are set with even 5k. Get sporked - and you are ok with having like only 4k.

Except that you want approaches that leave nothing to chance. Even totem users can get ambushed and 1-shotted if they encounter a mob that is ultra-mobile and does crazy damage. If it's not ultra-mobile, then it's your choice to let it hit you, whatever weapons you use.

Totally agree with you, that's exactly why I posted that shitbrick of text at the previous page. 7k es is also nowhere near 'you are set' as well, and I was addressing that.

i think i need to upload a video of my 4,x k ES, CI melee guy. then show me any range char who can compete in terms of defense. jeeeeeeesus. i will do that.

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HeroOfExile wrote:

i think i need to upload a video of my 4,x k ES, CI melee guy. then show me any range char who can compete in terms of defense. jeeeeeeesus. i will do that.

I am eager to see your character solo'es Onslaught (or Hardcore) maps level 68-72. Please do!

I promiss, I'll install video grabbing software to show you the defenses of my 88 HC EK Marauder in return. Sorry for he is not on Onslaught, just Hardcore, as he is really old now.

Edit to state it explicitly - despite my character is on Hardcore, I don't either have Kaom's Heart or other overly uber gear to make things clear.

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Daefecator wrote:

Wall of text

That was a long read but I think your overall statements are quite interesting and well motivated.

I think that evasion is indeed very doubtable. Pure evasion with block is too unreliable, I think. Yes 95% evasion, 75% block, facerolling content, until you are meleeing that boss that does hit you when unlucky. And then? You're screwed!

So armor and evasion? Yes nice, but armor and evasion and max block? No, too much investment compared to the result.

Just life, armor and max block is the way to go apparently and that's why I started a new character (now level 26) called "UniversalMarauder".

I want to inform you about proxy settings in Chrome. If you were not able to find those, they are in the settings but you have to click Show advanced settings (translated from Dutch) to be able to see proxy settings.

If you open the proxy settings you will find that Chrome actually uses proxy settings from the same source as IE does, just from your Internet Settings (In control panel or in IE options). However if I understand correctly you need to set a different proxy for Chrome than the one you are using for IE?

Anyway, Firefox also works wonderful with the online passives!

Facebreaker and elemental damage builds doesn't really gain much by getting a lot of damage nodes so for them it's a given that the passive tree will be defensive. I have seen plenty of physical non-facebreaker builds survive in maps just fine even after spending a large amount of points in damage nodes so while it's less safe it's definitely doable.

Something I'd like to point out about melee vs. ranged is that life/ES regen is stronger if you don't have to charge into enemies to kill them. Aegis Aurora as well as Vaal Pact life leech to some extent are defensive options that doesn't favour ranged over melee.

by removing those 6 nodes dumped into resistance, you can go pick up another 30 strength and 22% life :P

jus sayin'

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Startkabels wrote:

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Daefecator wrote:

Wall of text

Spoiler

That was a long read but I think your overall statements are quite interesting and well motivated.

I think that evasion is indeed very doubtable. Pure evasion with block is too unreliable, I think. Yes 95% evasion, 75% block, facerolling content, until you are meleeing that boss that does hit you when unlucky. And then? You're screwed!

So armor and evasion? Yes nice, but armor and evasion and max block? No, too much investment compared to the result.

Just life, armor and max block is the way to go apparently and that's why I started a new character (now level 26) called "UniversalMarauder".

I want to inform you about proxy settings in Chrome. If you were not able to find those, they are in the settings but you have to click Show advanced settings (translated from Dutch) to be able to see proxy settings.

If you open the proxy settings you will find that Chrome actually uses proxy settings from the same source as IE does, just from your Internet Settings (In control panel or in IE options). However if I understand correctly you need to set a different proxy for Chrome than the one you are using for IE?

Anyway, Firefox also works wonderful with the online passives!

Wow, you actually read that? I am impressed, finally I see someone who does, thanks! :)

As far as Chrome goes, yes, I need proxy settings to be visible only for Chrome and not for IE (that would allow internet access for all applications on my machine that also use these settings, and that's a no go for me). I was actually having a hard time finding any options in Chrome at all - pressing and releasing Alt doesn't show standard main toolstrip (with File View etc) at the window top, like it does in newer versions of Firefox as well as IE. Those pesky GUI designers FML :(

As far as topic goes, you are absolutely correct, in your first post and throughout the thread, that melees need even a little more survival than they can achieve with whole 120 pt build. Your build may or may not be specifically great in someone's view - but the point is there are close to no dps talents taken. There's just no way to squeeze them in having such few points to dump into passive skill tree. Talents that are spread across the vast tree that are attractive is great in my opinion, it really forces one to think about the build in general, how to optimize it, and so on. But having to rush for the defensive options only, and in result still not feeling safe - is really a bit demotivating in my opinion.

If GGG want to build a dangerous game (and Hardcore play definitely is), where noone could feel safe, I can't get how defensive talents are going to affect that - either you stack those to the absolute maximum and you finally feel safe, or you still don't feel safe having picked all the defensive options available to you. In the former case you are effectively "breaking the game" in terms of what GGG originally wanted (if they did), and in the latter case any build that doesn't stack up defenses feels extremely squishy.