[2.0]Rathik's NEWBIE FRIENDLY FUN&CHEAP FARMER, DPS Summoner. High AOE DMG, SURVIVAL."The Matriarch"

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Vomitorivm wrote:

@Cimos Interesting, you didn't take Minion Instability but Inner Force? I mean MI is just a huge boost virtually for free and IF is rather useless since you can't deal much damage yourself anyway, or do you?

[...]

Have you thought about Whispers of Doom? I think it's more valuable to have permanent Vulnerability/Enfeeble + Temporal Chains on all enemies than to get one more aura node.

Is MI that huge a boost in the new patch? Having started a new Summoner just to test 1.0.6 changes to them at early/mid levels [Currently level 46 in A3 Cruel] I'd have to say there's little benefit to MI at least pre-merciless. It may change in Merciless however since Minions tended to get more survival over time I'm not so sure.

Unlike prior patches, Zombies simply don't die anymore. Caligula (Norm) in the Scepter of the Gods killed them off with multiple traps. Perpetus in City of Sarn (Cruel) managed to kill some spectres but not zombies. On rare occasions the zombies might get weakened to the point of explosion, however they tend to have healed themselves up almost faster than I could recast them (if they weren't in the first 2-3 to be raised, then they'll leech/regen before I'd summon new ones).

Multi-curse doesn't seem as appealing anymore either. I'm not sure I've cast a curse intentionally (it replaced skeletons on my bar at one point by accident) so far, Flesh Offering or Bone Offering typically provides the defense I need.

I am leveling curses to have them available when I do end up needing them, however they don't seem as strong relative to other spells for a summoner.

Fast Enemies, Lots of Enemies, Enemy with lots of life to burst down -> Vulnerability, Enfeeble, Temporal Chains ... or Flesh Offering
Strong enemies, high burst damage -> Enfeeble, Temporal Chains ... or Bone Offering.

Combined with Desecrate you'll have ~80% uptime without extended Duration (3 corpses = 4s duration). With even a level 1 Increased Duration you'll have almost 6s of duration off the 3 corpses, enough to always have one of the offerings up.

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Vomitorivm wrote:

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kuromahou wrote:

IMO CI is better for less powerful minions but stacking MF is easy (and you are more survivable with a large es vs less life but that is debatable).

Life is better for stacking 5-6 auras and having uber pets. More damage and tankier minions, but much harder to stack mf since you need life and chaos resist on gear.

Well its not so much about life or CI, more about the gear. If I don't have to stack IIQ/IIR, I could go straight Skullhead/Midnight Bargain/Matua Tupuna/Bones of Ullr/Sidhebreath+rest resistances and life and logically have much better minions.

Midnight Bargain is the only one of those you can't use really for minions if you go CI. Snapshotting lets you use the rest, although Bones of Ullr is useless if you don't keep it on. Matua Tupuna has a borderline use due to only being a 3s. Using it for stronger minions is really for the 10% Aura boost (Which if you only have 2 auras isn't a huge boost).

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Vomitorivm wrote:

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Balbafu wrote:

With the new skills I actually removed IIR, IIQ and Culling Strike from Arc... Not even sure why I still use Arc, guess it's nice to get my minions to focus on some specific mob or totem.
My Zombies and Spectres kill stuff so fast, I feel Culling Strike isn't really necessary, instead I actually put IIR and IIQ (+ Increased AOE) on my Evangelist Spectres, as they often seem to finish stuff off with their large AOE attack.

Cimos21, how do you run 4 auras on mana alone? I can barely run three and have most of the aura nodes...

Arc is imo cmpletely redundant. You don't need to cull things when your zombies can do that and so you get one 4L free for bone and flesh offering + desecrate + duration, which is a huge boost in DPS and defence.

If you want to focus your minions, curses work well and if you really want just one enemy, manually attack him once with any attack and they gangrape him.

The only use I see for Arc over some alternate Culling method is to use when partying as the dedicated culler. Speed + coverage on it is probably one of the best in the game. Otherwise SummonRagingSkull is probably a better 'attack', extra minion-based DPS without requiring corpses, and they seem to be more effective than Skeletons, unless you need the bodies between you and the target.

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Vomitorivm wrote:

I take Frenzy Apes as specters, so there is no risk in them stealing kills from the zombies. Works only in farming areas of course, the apes need Minion Life + Minion Res + Life Leech to survive. But permafrenzy on a big party is so much fun, and the clearspeed is epic. Culling Strike on Zombies is necessary at least in parties where it's mandatory to land as much killing blows as possible. Solo I'd replace it by Faster Attacks.

If you're culling in parties, Arc is still probably the best bet (slightly more control over what gets culled, and don't have to wait for Zombies to turn and run there).

I'm currently leveling a Scion (lvl 59 atm) to play as MF in a party of three players composed by me, a Infernal Blow marauder tank and a physical frenzy ranger.

The role I would like to do is to provide decent dps, party utilities and of course more and better loot.

Here's what I'm planning to do:

Head: culling arc with quantity and quality
Weapon: curse, desecrate and another gem that i still have to figure out
Chest: zombie (multistrike, melee splash, quantity, rarity)
Shield: totem+skellies, raging spirit
Gloves: reduced mana+discipline+clarity+hatred (i will run only two of them if i'm not able to sustain them all), swap reduced mana with Animate Guardian after aura cast
Boots: spectre+increased duration+bone offering+flesh offering

Animate Guardian: Leer Cast+Crest of Perandus+Zahndethus' Cassock+Aurumvorax
Spectre: 2xEvangelist or 1 Evangelist and 1 Frenzy Ape

This is my current build:

http://www.pathofexile.com/passive-skill-tree/AAAAAgAABkkIZw5IES8RlhVQGDwabBzcHRQo-ilPKpgspjQKN2Y3gzrYQ2NEBE25TdhY9VqRZp5qrHFNfll_xoLHhWCIQIhrjHaPRpAzkNaTJ5M6mZqaz5uhna6dxKaspuunCKh9qsS0DLb3tzG4k70nv5fBxcNtyT3MvNDQ0_vZC9rd44TkIuq662Pr7uwY7DjyHvfX-ej6gPrSE2wQlw==


I don't know where to put next skill points. I'll grab soon CI and subsequent ES nodes, but I'm not sure how to advance after that: double curses? Lord of the Dead? Buffing auras?

What do you think about gem setup?

I had to try this build new self found over the weekend.
no I am not a super elite player but this is what I saw.
made a new witch summoner to try the new skills/spells.
Went thru normal act 1 no problem, little tough in act 2 but I managed to find enough stuff to get me thru.
If it wasn't for the firetrap reward in act1 it would be a bitch.
Act 3 lost in love prison, walked into a room and just died. WTF so I went back and there are 3 uniques and a blue pack in the room,
NEVER seen this before, anyway it must be a server screwup because only one dropped anything and it was a scroll of wisdom.
Anyway went thru act 3 no problems, I was lucky on drops so I now have 2 orange items I can use WEEEEE necklace for summons helps a lot.
Only problem I saw was my level and resist in docks, the dogs would melt zombies like butter.
Finally died a dominus, but went back finished him 1 death total, and on to the next level.
Act 1 and 2 just breezed thru, zombies are now powerful enough, and can raise 8 skellies to help...
found a rejuv totem and that is a big plus. I am now in act 3 and its easy so far,up to piety now.
the only thing that I am having problems with is resist, some zombies are dying now and at least that is what I am thinking it is.
Only curse I use is chains and its enough :)

ps finished act 1 normal at 14 and act 3 at 31.
level 50 now all self found, nothing from my higher chrs.
Flesh and Bone, you get both from quest but you have to pick one. I took Flesh, its great and turns them into raging bulls.
its frustrating that you have to choose, bone I got from later quest.
Still using firetraps, zombies, skellies and rejuv.
ps I am using act2 ape for Spectre and they are nice.
yep a one trick pony sad really.
ps I found a spell totem and put raging spirit on it to test, seems to cast a lot but I don't have the sockets to keep it, either way its not that powerful but it was in early game and a help.
don't have the sockets to use it with skellies either, I have 4 socket with skelle and support gems.
people say that this is opp and needs to be nerfed, I went faster on my IB duelest and no deaths so I don't see it yet.

anyway it was fun and interesting now to get thru to the end and do something new, like finish this MF build LOL

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Zinsho wrote:

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Vomitorivm wrote:

@Cimos Interesting, you didn't take Minion Instability but Inner Force? I mean MI is just a huge boost virtually for free and IF is rather useless since you can't deal much damage yourself anyway, or do you?

[...]

Have you thought about Whispers of Doom? I think it's more valuable to have permanent Vulnerability/Enfeeble + Temporal Chains on all enemies than to get one more aura node.

Is MI that huge a boost in the new patch? Having started a new Summoner just to test 1.0.6 changes to them at early/mid levels [Currently level 46 in A3 Cruel] I'd have to say there's little benefit to MI at least pre-merciless. It may change in Merciless however since Minions tended to get more survival over time I'm not so sure.

Unlike prior patches, Zombies simply don't die anymore. Caligula (Norm) in the Scepter of the Gods killed them off with multiple traps. Perpetus in City of Sarn (Cruel) managed to kill some spectres but not zombies. On rare occasions the zombies might get weakened to the point of explosion, however they tend to have healed themselves up almost faster than I could recast them (if they weren't in the first 2-3 to be raised, then they'll leech/regen before I'd summon new ones).

Well, maybe not that much of a boost. Prior to 1.0.6 it was quite a bit. It's a bit useless for Zombies now because either they are offensive (so they don't have lots of HP to deal damage with) or they are tanks (so they almost never die). Also specters have not much life and can't really use MI. The only guys that could benefit from it are skellies, which aren't very convenient to play even with a brotem. The main reason I'm using it is that my offensive zombies can actuallly die and it's just one point and the gore effect lol.

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Multi-curse doesn't seem as appealing anymore either. I'm not sure I've cast a curse intentionally (it replaced skeletons on my bar at one point by accident) so far, Flesh Offering or Bone Offering typically provides the defense I need.

I am leveling curses to have them available when I do end up needing them, however they don't seem as strong relative to other spells for a summoner.

The offerings are nice of course, I will kick brotem for BO + FO + ID. At least Hex Master is worth it! Because it saves you 1 slot (increased duration), you can run all of your curses in a 3L with AoE. Multiple curses is a bit questionable but since real summoners don't have anything to do, it's just very easy cursing while your minions fight. Of course, now we can also make offerings. Aaand if you use caster specters, they add up their curses.

By the way, 2 curses can be very defensive (Enfeeble + TC), but for fast farming I run all 3 elemental auras + Elemental Weakness curse + Vulnerability. It's sick! And colourful!

"

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Vomitorivm wrote:

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kuromahou wrote:

IMO CI is better for less powerful minions but stacking MF is easy (and you are more survivable with a large es vs less life but that is debatable).

Life is better for stacking 5-6 auras and having uber pets. More damage and tankier minions, but much harder to stack mf since you need life and chaos resist on gear.

Well its not so much about life or CI, more about the gear. If I don't have to stack IIQ/IIR, I could go straight Skullhead/Midnight Bargain/Matua Tupuna/Bones of Ullr/Sidhebreath+rest resistances and life and logically have much better minions.

Midnight Bargain is the only one of those you can't use really for minions if you go CI. Snapshotting lets you use the rest, although Bones of Ullr is useless if you don't keep it on. Matua Tupuna has a borderline use due to only being a 3s. Using it for stronger minions is really for the 10% Aura boost (Which if you only have 2 auras isn't a huge boost).

Well I didnt actively plan into snapshotting because they'll probably fix that. With snapping, you can make Mon'tregul giant zombies plus normal ones lol... nah, I dont like exploits.
Hasn't every shield the downside of being 3L? ^^

Well, in this build it doesn't really matter because all that counts is IIR/IIQ!

I can appreciate the MI gore effect. I might take it late Merciless if my zombies/specters start actually dying regularly enough to benefit from the skill point.

I took a3n evangelists all the way to just shy of Oak in a2c before they actually got killed (spitting snakes in Wetlands did them in finally). Minion survival is significantly better due to extra resists, leech, regen and attack/cast speed.

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Vomitorivm wrote:

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Multi-curse doesn't seem as appealing anymore either. I'm not sure I've cast a curse intentionally (it replaced skeletons on my bar at one point by accident) so far, Flesh Offering or Bone Offering typically provides the defense I need.

I am leveling curses to have them available when I do end up needing them, however they don't seem as strong relative to other spells for a summoner.

The offerings are nice of course, I will kick brotem for BO + FO + ID. At least Hex Master is worth it! Because it saves you 1 slot (increased duration), you can run all of your curses in a 3L with AoE. Multiple curses is a bit questionable but since real summoners don't have anything to do, it's just very easy cursing while your minions fight. Of course, now we can also make offerings. Aaand if you use caster specters, they add up their curses.

By the way, 2 curses can be very defensive (Enfeeble + TC), but for fast farming I run all 3 elemental auras + Elemental Weakness curse + Vulnerability. It's sick! And colourful!

That does sound fun for the colorfulness. HexMaster would be useful however in my case it would be at least 2 points (I'm not getting the +Mana right there, at least not right away). As to the actual savings, don't need Increased Duration, but unless you're actively casting you don't lose much 'uptime' by recasting whenever it expires.

On the other hand, a 'real' summoner can now actively summon for decent damage: Summon Raging Spirit.

Either put it in the 6L with Zombies or run it separate (Currently SRS + Melee Splash + Cull + Minion Damage, might swap Minion Damage for IIR though) and cast it during fights. They seem more useful than skeletons, don't get caught behind the Zombies, or block the Zombies.

"

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Vomitorivm wrote:

[...]

Midnight Bargain is the only one of those you can't use really for minions if you go CI. Snapshotting lets you use the rest, although Bones of Ullr is useless if you don't keep it on. Matua Tupuna has a borderline use due to only being a 3s. Using it for stronger minions is really for the 10% Aura boost (Which if you only have 2 auras isn't a huge boost).

Well I didnt actively plan into snapshotting because they'll probably fix that. With snapping, you can make Mon'tregul giant zombies plus normal ones lol... nah, I dont like exploits.
Hasn't every shield the downside of being 3L? ^^

Well, in this build it doesn't really matter because all that counts is IIR/IIQ!

I mean 3L on Matua is a penalty when trying to use the +2 Minion bonus. If you're running Minions in it then it's fine, if you're using your weapon and shield for Curses/Offerings, then the +2 is lost, otherwise you have 1 less socket available for support gems.

Zombies in Chest (5-6L), Spectres in Boots/Gloves, Skeletons/Raging Spirit in Helm. Curse + Desecrate in Weapon, Aura in Boots/Gloves, Offerings in Shield (or swap weapon and shield for +1 on offerings).

All that counts is the IIQ/IIR, and with the minion boosts, they survive even better.

"

Daddyboo wrote:

I had to try this build new self found over the weekend.
no I am not a super elite player but this is what I saw.
made a new witch summoner to try the new skills/spells.
Went thru normal act 1 no problem, little tough in act 2 but I managed to find enough stuff to get me thru.
If it wasn't for the firetrap reward in act1 it would be a bitch.
Act 3 lost in love prison, walked into a room and just died. WTF so I went back and there are 3 uniques and a blue pack in the room,
NEVER seen this before, anyway it must be a server screwup because only one dropped anything and it was a scroll of wisdom.
Anyway went thru act 3 no problems, I was lucky on drops so I now have 2 orange items I can use WEEEEE necklace for summons helps a lot.
Only problem I saw was my level and resist in docks, the dogs would melt zombies like butter.
Finally died a dominus, but went back finished him 1 death total, and on to the next level.
Act 1 and 2 just breezed thru, zombies are now powerful enough, and can raise 8 skellies to help...
found a rejuv totem and that is a big plus. I am now in act 3 and its easy so far,up to piety now.
the only thing that I am having problems with is resist, some zombies are dying now and at least that is what I am thinking it is.
Only curse I use is chains and its enough :)

ps finished act 1 normal at 14 and act 3 at 31.
level 50 now all self found, nothing from my higher chrs.
Flesh and Bone, you get both from quest but you have to pick one. I took Flesh, its great and turns them into raging bulls.
its frustrating that you have to choose, bone I got from later quest.
Still using firetraps, zombies, skellies and rejuv.
ps I am using act2 ape for Spectre and they are nice.
yep a one trick pony sad really.
ps I found a spell totem and put raging spirit on it to test, seems to cast a lot but I don't have the sockets to keep it, either way its not that powerful but it was in early game and a help.
don't have the sockets to use it with skellies either, I have 4 socket with skelle and support gems.
people say that this is opp and needs to be nerfed, I went faster on my IB duelest and no deaths so I don't see it yet.

anyway it was fun and interesting now to get thru to the end and do something new, like finish this MF build LOL

I tried it new over the weekend as well. I didn't go quite self-found, although everything is either self-found or affordable based on currency drops.


My Zombies didn't have trouble in the Docks (Spectres did but that's another story), I did have trouble in the Ship Graveyard Cave actually due to packs of Frost Nova enemies that froze or killed everything I sent at them, was (and am) using Raging Spirit as my DPS skill.

Between Zombies and Raging Spirits (both with Melee Splash) I didn't have any trouble clearing normal enemies at any point. Firetrap probably would work in the place of Raging Spirit for DPS, but wouldn't benefit from the minion bonuses. I've been essentially at Area Level throughout, and haven't stopped to farm anywhere.

Only died once, and that was my own fault. First wave of Uniques when facing against Dominus I had a bit of Desync and decided to stay and shoot off Raging Spirits rather than try to move around to avoid potential damage. Ended up dying to Draconius a couple seconds before Zombies finished him off. Dominus seemed to melt to Zombies with Flesh Offering, and 2nd form went down even faster.

Spectre wise I've been using Undying Incinerators/Alchemists, Evangelists, Frenzy Apes or Oak bandits (Warlord mark).

It might not be the fastest build to level up or kill enemies, but it definitely has higher survival than most without sacrificing DPS (Since you almost never get targeted/hit).

Holy RNGod...
600 Chroms later still no rrgb on 5L :(((

This game knows how to make one broke.....

What base item type are you trying to make RRGB on?

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CupcakeFactory wrote:

Holy RNGod...
600 Chroms later still no rrgb on 5L :(((

This game knows how to make one broke.....

It usually takes me 60-100 chromatics to get my vaal regalia back to RRGBB.

I sometimes switch it to BBGGR for my ice witch.

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kuromahou wrote:

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CupcakeFactory wrote:

Holy RNGod...
600 Chroms later still no rrgb on 5L :(((

This game knows how to make one broke.....

It usually takes me 60-100 chromatics to get my vaal regalia back to RRGBB.

I sometimes switch it to BBGGR for my ice witch.

Best until now was bbbrr. shouldve kept that...

I got BRRG quiet qickly in my boots... But now its not happening...

I maybe should make a new account and start all over again to be less frustrated.
Or I should stick to my D2 MF Sorc xD