After a bit of testing, I came to the conclusion that Inner Force does not provide enough benefit to justify the costs.
Benefits of Inner Force (With level 20 auras)
9% increased armor
241 additional armor
2% attack speed
1% movement speed
7% added on cold damage based on physical
5% resistance
20 intelligence
at the cost of 5 passive points
you can pick up for the same amount of passive points
8% resistance
8% damage reduction (equivalent to ~8k additional armor, however doesn't scale)
47% increase melee physical damage (Which scales as well with hatred)
12 life
The result is a lot more dps, more survivability, more resistance at the cost of 20 intelligence, 1% slow movement speed and the annoyance of casting endurance charges.
Hehe you don't need any more DPS. Also Endurance charges are not easy to maintain all the time.
You might want to consider that Inner force also makes all your flasks stronger... Granite flasks, Lightning resistance flasks, chaos flasks, Quicksilver flasks. If you want to tank Piety like I did - you need Inner force actually :-)
You gain more dps and survivability. Since you should be aiming to have 77 all res without purity, it allows you to deal with elemental weakness maps more efficiently as charges add resistance. Furthermore, the benefits granted by the inner force to flask effects is negligable when you reach your resistance cap and your damage reduction cap without flasks. Therefore the only benefit of using a resistance flask is the increase resistance cap, which doesn't alter under inner force to my knowledge. Correct me if im wrong. Therefore. Yes. You'd be able to face tank piety. You'd actually be able to deal with her under elemental weakness mods.
Once again, the benefits are negligible relative to endurance charges. The only reason to not get them is out of laziness. It's very easy to maintain the charges, especially when you have a 10% chance to gain an endurance charge when blocking. A lvl 18+ Enduring cry makes this very simple, synergizing perfectly with Immortal Call to gain that 5-7 seconds of invulnerability.
Note : One 15% melee damage node is equivalent to the increase generated by inner force. Therefore if you're so adamant that dps is so unecessary, you have 2 additional passive points to invest in block... spell block... life... armor... stats... However, I think its a better investment to use 3 passive points into the damage and switching to a rare rustic sash for more life... resistance... stats...armor... and reach equal dps, however i'll test that roll in two levels.
Putting into perspective, I'm going to link my current gear and passive tree. Level 83
Defensive Stats
Spoiler
16296 Armor
64% Damage Reduction - 80% with 4 endurance charges - 26488 armor and 90% damage reduction under granit flask
4534 Life
i would be interested to get your opinion on is build setup nasta.seem to have lot more hp and endu charge are pretty damn good and dont scale down like armor.using immortal call could also be interesting but not sure if needed with alreaady that hight dmg reduction/blind/block...down side is he have lower block.
im currently lvling a character using nasta build and it work great but if there some way to make it even better would be great to know so like that....i wont need 20-30 regret later lol
p.s:sick ring nasta :)
Last edited by zakariusqc#1505 on Jul 24, 2013, 1:44:02 PM
For beginners: start using the build around level 45 with the right gems.
I had a 4L good Facebreaker with Cyclone, Life Leech, Incr phys dmg and Blood Magic.
This is my current build and im around level 50.
Im playing Anarchy so im not scared to dieing, if you play HC you need more defensive nodes cus sometimes i die.
And im building toward Nata build, with a bit less def and more DPS.
PS: turn off auto-equip on at settings, I was playing and accidentally picked up a mace, and I was thinkin fuck why do these mobs die so slowy.... Then i realised he automatically equippen a grey mace, hence FB wasn't working. Be carefull with that ;)
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i would be interested to get your opinion on is build setup nasta.
I don't think it's good at all. It's basically the ideal level 100 tree without Inner force and shield nodes. :-p to be able to use that tree you need +60 dex and +60 int, which is quite hard to get from gear. You lose 17% chance to block using that shield, which gives you the resistances... It's nothing special really, like I said the route depends on what items you have. I can't take that route yet - and I think Inner force is much better. I have 56500 armor with granite now :-)
Last edited by Exalton#4913 on Jul 24, 2013, 8:59:28 PM
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i would be interested to get your opinion on is build setup nasta.
I don't think it's good at all. It's basically the ideal level 100 tree without Inner force and shield nodes. :-p to be able to use that tree you need +60 dex and +60 int, which is quite hard to get from gear. You lose 17% chance to block using that shield, which gives you the resistances... It's nothing special really, like I said the route depends on what items you have. I can't take that route yet - and I think Inner force is much better. I have 56500 armor with granite now :-)
I can't tell if you're being ignorant on purpose or simply stubborn. There is nothing about that build that is for lvl 100. Both tree's were for level 83 and level 88... and 83 is easily attainable. Secondly, getting stats on gear or passives is obviously up to you, but either or is easily attainable.
1. You invest 3 points in acquiring 20% Elemental Resistance. Similarly, you can invest 3 points into acquiring 8% block chance. I don't know where you pulled out 17% from, but last i checked, lioneyes doesn't have 41% block chance. The difference is 9%, or 10% if you incorporate the 1% block chance node additional you attain.
2. I don't think you understand how endurance charges work at all if you keep bragging about armor. You can reach the reduction cap with armor or charges, both are viable. One you have to cast, the other you have to flask.
3. You say its not good at all but you also say the route depends on what items you have, and that you can't take that route yet. So you would take it if you had the gear? You need to learn how to contribute to discussing builds without trashing alternate options.
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i would be interested to get your opinion on is build setup nasta.
I don't think it's good at all. It's basically the ideal level 100 tree without Inner force and shield nodes. :-p to be able to use that tree you need +60 dex and +60 int, which is quite hard to get from gear. You lose 17% chance to block using that shield, which gives you the resistances... It's nothing special really, like I said the route depends on what items you have. I can't take that route yet - and I think Inner force is much better. I have 56500 armor with granite now :-)
I can't tell if you're being ignorant on purpose or simply stubborn. There is nothing about that build that is for lvl 100. Both tree's were for level 83 and level 88... and 83 is easily attainable. Secondly, getting stats on gear or passives is obviously up to you, but either or is easily attainable.
1. You invest 3 points in acquiring 20% Elemental Resistance. Similarly, you can invest 3 points into acquiring 8% block chance. I don't know where you pulled out 17% from, but last i checked, lioneyes doesn't have 41% block chance. The difference is 9%, or 10% if you incorporate the 1% block chance node additional you attain.
2. I don't think you understand how endurance charges work at all if you keep bragging about armor. You can reach the reduction cap with armor or charges, both are viable. One you have to cast, the other you have to flask.
3. You say its not good at all but you also say the route depends on what items you have, and that you can't take that route yet. So you would take it if you had the gear? You need to learn how to contribute to discussing builds without trashing alternate options.
Haha really, getting upset? Your shield has 24% block, the one i use has 33%, also you did not select the shield nodes that I did...
Maybe you should read up on the armor formula. The "reduction cap"? Do you know how armor works? The thing you see in the character sheet is an estimated reduction against an average monster - it means nothing when you face stronger monsters.
You can use whatever tree you want I don't really understand why you keep spamming your tree all over this thread? I don't care what you use or how you choose to play. Someone asked me what I thought about it and I gave my answer. You're very welcome to create your own thread with your ideas and your build.
The tree you have selected is impossible to get for me on onslaught, because there are no items to buy with that amount of attribute points. With the amount of armor that I have further endurance charges are useless. Also not going for Inner force when it is 5 Points away is a huge fail.
For 5 Points you get
4.5% more dmg
2.7% more AS
1.08% more MS
242 Armor
9.18% more Armor
5% all resistances
+20 INT
540 armor and 18% increased armor from Granite flasks
6.3% more Chaos resistance from Amethyst flasks
~15% more MS with Quicksilver flasks
1% Max resistances from any resistance flask.
Basically you will take 33% more damage from elemental damage without the 1% max resistances from flasks, so even that single argument is pretty significant. Since you use flasks constantly every build that's even remotely close to IF takes it. So my opinion is that it's a really bad decision not to take it. If you want someone elses opinion I suggest you post your build in their thread instead.
Last edited by Exalton#4913 on Jul 25, 2013, 1:53:47 AM
