(Aug 19 NZT) Hardcore No-Party Ladder Race

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ultrahiangle wrote:

why are people qqing about party advantage so much when people did over 2 levels better in the pure solo race?

I think it's because they have convinced themselves this is not the case for months, pushed hard for a solo event and got it, then in that very first event solo out-levels parties and they just cannot accept it.

Here's the shitposter's dream patch notes:
- nerf party xp
- nerf party loot
- nerf portals
- nerf marauder
- nerf phase run
- make progression so linear that every player/class has 100% equal chance no matter what or else i wont play ;_;
- party gets extra debuffs

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ultrahiangle wrote:

why are people qqing about party advantage so much when people did over 2 levels better in the pure solo race?

It's the way some humans see things. Some people believe if they are not as successful as someone else in any endeavor, there must be some reason other than their own skill causing the discrepancy. These people will go out of their way to convince themselves that their shortcomings are no fault of their own and it is the duty of someone else to make it "fair".

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dime wrote:

I think it's because they have convinced themselves this is not the case for months, pushed hard for a solo event and got it, then in that very first event solo out-levels parties and they just cannot accept it.

Here's the shitposter's dream patch notes:
- nerf party xp
- nerf party loot
- nerf portals
- nerf marauder
- nerf phase run
- make progression so linear that every player/class has 100% equal chance no matter what or else i wont play ;_;
- party gets extra debuffs

I think parties gain a distinct advantage... for the weaker classes. Which of the weaker classes (witch, templar, duelist) did better in the solo race than any of the last several "party races"(the races where the "uber party" has cleaned up)?

I don't want them to do any of that stuff that you mentioned, I'd just like some level of segratation. You enter a party, you're in the "party prize pool", you remain solo, you remain eligible for prizes designated for solo only.

Of course this opens the door for a solo Marauder to enter a party briefly so he can get in the "easier" prize pool, instead of the more difficult solo pool (assuming solo Marauders can outpace party Marauders more often than not). Alternatively, you could just run two simultaneous races, one with parties disabled, and one with parties enabled.

Nothing else needs to change, parties are great the way they are. There are some distinct advantages (exp scales more than mob hp does, loot bonuses, etc.), but there are a lot of issues that you will hit in a party that solo won't hit (weaker classes dragging the stronger classes down, staying together, etc.).

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Metronomy wrote:

Even if you are the greatest solo advocate, you can not refute that 3/6 classes easily acheived better results than last weeks party.

This can be explained by this:

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Metronomy wrote:

But perhaps this has to do with the amount others have practised, and people will get better levels in the future

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Metronomy wrote:

Unfortunately I wasnt joking, the more people in your party there is, the more movement you have to see on your screen, there are many times when you dont know what the hell is happening or who you are even attacking (eg attacking the air).

This is very true everywhere but in a boss fight, in a boss fight, it always feels like easy mode in a party. Being targeted one sixth of the time and having everyone focus on the same target makes a boss fight so much easier.

That said, parties have to work way harder to be elite, but an elite party of 6 will always have a higher average exp than the top 6 of each class soloing. If not, than the party isn't elite.

The number of people in each class level 20 and above at the end of the race: (Format: Class / Aug 5 Race / Aug 12 Race / Aug 19 Solo Race)
Marauder / 11 / 31 / 42
Ranger / 16 / 25 / 23
Witch / 7 / 9 / 3
Duelist / 6 / 22 / 15
Templar / 9 / 10 / 12
Shadow / 5 / 15 / 6

(Total / 317 / 514 / 593
Players
At One
Point)

What does it mean? People died a lot more. Shadow and Witch are very hard to solo with.

They have to run more of these events before anyone can say that solo and party play are balanced.

Sure, two Marauders got to level 30+ but what would happen if those two Marauders played together in 1 party? Would they do worse, the same, or even better?

In my opinion they could probably get higher by splitting up certain quests, but until they try it we can't really know for sure.

Also, the biggest problem with party vs solo play is that it ignores class balance.

Can a Templar get to level 30 solo?

From what I can tell certain classes benefit more from group play.

The Templar appears to be a class that can easily be in the top 6 over all if carried by a group, but individually have no chance of getting in the top 10.

The weaker classes are not just competing with their own class, but are also forced to compete with every class that happens to be in a good group.

It is clear that a party can basically carry 1 or 2 members that are good but not exceptional players.

So essentially the best Templar might not ever win a competition provided that there is at least 1 Templar that is carried by a good party.

And again, I am not against group play. I would simply like to see a mix of solo, group, and group/solo events.

Variety is best.

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dime wrote:

Here's the shitposter's dream patch notes:
- nerf portals

Portals are the only thing that needs changing and many people would be happy. There are too many ways to cheese a race with portals while in a party and drastically reduces the skill requirement. Why you want the races to be easier for you? Right so you can keep hoarding more Demigods so you can ebay them come open beta as you intend to.

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dime wrote:

shitposter's

You seem really upset that you either didn't win in a solo event or that 2 marauders got higher than you ever did.

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Newtonheim wrote:

You seem really upset that you either didn't win in a solo event or that 2 marauders got higher than you ever did.

Yeah, uh, not really... I was referring to the people that whine about race format in every event thread. And people like you ;D

Hell yeah whining about event races in every thread. Also those demis are probably going to be worth about 3 bucks each after ebay fees. Just saiyan.

So what I can gather from the party-advocates is that they want another solo-only race to gather more evidence. I see no reason to argue against such a reasonable stance.

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dime wrote:

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Newtonheim wrote:

You seem really upset that you either didn't win in a solo event or that 2 marauders got higher than you ever did.

Yeah, uh, not really... I was referring to the people that whine about race format in every event thread. And people like you ;D

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Was this necessary?

You and IMD are in my mind by far one of the better players in the game. But I figured you'd be above name-calling and showing off. Especially when no one has insulted you.

Anyway, race was really fun. Got some bad desync and ended up dying, but ahh well, onto the next one!