[1.0.6] CI Crit Dagger Shadow (30k DPS Flicker Ninja) [OB video up!]

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MortalKombat3 wrote:

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jparrais wrote:

So, im lvl 81 and I made a few upgrades im my gear here and there, and this is actually my gear

i have 5.9k ES, max resists. My dps in double strike is 15k with hatred and all frenzy charges and power charges, im doing some 72~73 maps, and its reallll hard get out of there alive...
looks like im made of glass.
Unfortunately this build is broken, must be nerfed a few updates ago

any tips?

Your build is broken because your dagger is broken. Do you really expect to beat endgame with a dagger with only two far from perfect mods (magic weapon, actually)? Lol, i vendor daggers like yours.

Buy yourself a proper weapon, and your build will shine. You need a dagger with increased crit chance and at least two decent DPS mods, resulting in 150-180 DPS WITH 8%+ crit chance (and batter - 200+DPS with 9+ crit chance).
Your chest isnt even linked, and your need 5-L there, at least.
No accuracy from gear. Lol, you need 200+ (better 300+) on every ring and on helm, at least (or use Additional Accuracy gem).

Just overlooked Invalesco's build... Yes, it IS broken ATM. No way you can stay alive endgame with CI dagger build without Vaal Pact. You can try my build instead, if you want. It is CI dagger, endgame viable for any one-handed+shield abilities except, perhaps, Lightning Strike (because no access to Point Blank).

You actually can survive just fine without Vaal pact, I've been doing it for quite some time now.

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Why I dont die with 6k ES, and YOU die with 6.5k? Obviously, you have enough ES there. But you also need to RECOVER your ES rapidly, that's what you need a GOOD dagger for (as well as Vaal PAct). Offence is the best defence for your build, never forget it.

You know why people get vaal pact right? It's actually to offset self-spiking yourself through reflect mobs, more so than just general recovery. You can recover enough ES with blood rage active and any half decent measure of dps. Vaal pact currently is taken mainly to offset the physical reflect damage people have trouble dealing with when specced into this build, but it is by no means necessary.

Hi there, sorry to bother, I just changed to CI and I am lacking resist on my gears and I just dont seem to know where I can get my resist from, I hope you can help give some pointers about what equips to change up in order to get resist. Also I have some questions about the skill tree, I am currently following the high dmg tree with 111 points, and about the critical strike chance nodes in the beginning of the tree beside assassination just wondering if those are worth adding and also the power charge node(critical mass) on the right side of the previously mentioned critical strike chance nodes. Nice build I am liking it very much =)

also again sry for so many questions but how do you deal with reflect dmg?

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aznphreak wrote:

Hi there, sorry to bother, I just changed to CI and I am lacking resist on my gears and I just dont seem to know where I can get my resist from, I hope you can help give some pointers about what equips to change up in order to get resist. Also I have some questions about the skill tree, I am currently following the high dmg tree with 111 points, and about the critical strike chance nodes in the beginning of the tree beside assassination just wondering if those are worth adding and also the power charge node(critical mass) on the right side of the previously mentioned critical strike chance nodes. Nice build I am liking it very much =)

also again sry for so many questions but how do you deal with reflect dmg?

Don't worry about bothering, this forum is used for information! I'll give you a quick run down as quick and concise as I can.

Your shield really leaves much to be desired of for potential resistance.

This is my current shield, and I liked the Armor/Energy Shield hybrid type of shield, it can cover all the needs of this build nicely.



Try to find a decent Kite shield with the innate resist roll, and then try to get additional resists on it. It's quite valuable to plug up the problem you've got since you can still get one with high ES.

Your jewelry is alright, and your helmet is strong but they're all lacking in resists as well. You've got a couple of good resists on your body armor/boots but by using a unique belt you're gonna have a harder time with the resist spread. Rare belts can roll up to 3 resists.

The thing about power charges is that they are useful and the more you can have up at one time the better. You're going to be maxing out on a few lightning strikes easily, so having that +1 in my opinion would be good to further keep sustaining them.

Reffering back to a prior post about Vaal pact, it is primarily the answer to physical reflect mobs in addition to 'pre-flasking' the damage with a Granite. You pop your armor flask before you start dealing with the phys reflect and it will moderately reduce the damage returns since your physical damage reduction % is going up. It makes it to where your crits don't instantly explode you after a few because you're able to get the most energy shield back returned from your ES leech with Vaal Pact giving it to you all up front instead of over time.

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Anamaeus wrote:

You know why people get vaal pact right? It's actually to offset self-spiking yourself through reflect mobs, more so than just general recovery. You can recover enough ES with blood rage active and any half decent measure of dps. Vaal pact currently is taken mainly to offset the physical reflect damage people have trouble dealing with when specced into this build, but it is by no means necessary.

You will take your words back when face Poorjoy's Asylum, double Piety, etc, etc.
Even if Vaal Pact takes 10-12 points, it IS well worth that. What can you taked for those points? 60-80% increased maximum ES? Ok, you will have 20-27% more ES there, but your ES recovery is just 20% per second, while with Vaal Pact, you can easily recover 200-500% ES per second. With Vaal Pact, you should really care only about oneshots. Without it, you will care about every other shit as well - Reflect, Rhoas, Voidbearers, Devourers, Piety, etc, etc. Oh,and when there is -50% regen map? Lol, your ES recovery will be screwed to 10% per second. How in the hells do you intent to survive this as a Melee???

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MortalKombat3 wrote:

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Anamaeus wrote:

You know why people get vaal pact right? It's actually to offset self-spiking yourself through reflect mobs, more so than just general recovery. You can recover enough ES with blood rage active and any half decent measure of dps. Vaal pact currently is taken mainly to offset the physical reflect damage people have trouble dealing with when specced into this build, but it is by no means necessary.

You will take your words back when face Poorjoy's Asylum, double Piety, etc, etc.
Even if Vaal Pact takes 10-12 points, it IS well worth that. What can you taked for those points? 60-80% increased maximum ES? Ok, you will have 20-27% more ES there, but your ES recovery is just 20% per second, while with Vaal Pact, you can easily recover 200-500% ES per second. With Vaal Pact, you should really care only about oneshots. Without it, you will care about every other shit as well - Reflect, Rhoas, Voidbearers, Devourers, Piety, etc, etc. Oh,and when there is -50% regen map? Lol, your ES recovery will be screwed to 10% per second. How in the hells do you intent to survive this as a Melee???

Actually, Anamaeus is right. I've played this char even before GR was ever implemented. So I know that it is playable even without GR and even more so without VP.

An increased amount of ES, ie a buffer against damage is not something to laugh at. The only purpose of VP is to not two-shot yourself against reflect, which in the first place would only happen if you go crazy and flicker into reflect packs - which you shouldn't. Lightning Strike is there for a reason. 50% elemental and 50% physical allows you to deal with physical reflect.

ES recovery and ES leech are two different things.

ES recovery is when you recover your ES after not taking damage for a certain amount of time - usually you recover to a full amount of ES within 3 seconds. That is what suffers when you do half regen maps.

However, ES leech does not suffer. ES leech is capped at 20% of your maximum ES per second - this is compared to VP which allows you to leech instantly - without a cap rate. This is independent of map mods and is not affected by half regen maps.

With a higher maximum ES - your ES leech rate is also increased, because the amount you can leech within your cap is increased.

Lower max ES = higher chance of getting one-shot.
Higher max ES = lower chance of getting one-shot.

I know which one I would rather use in HC.

So, you want to say, that 50% regen maps make MANA leech twice less powerful, while leaving LIFE leech unchanged? That look like a lie for me, sorry.

ES recovery is a separate thing, and it is heavily penaltized by Vulnerability mod, btw.

I will never agree that Vaal Pact's main purpose is to bypass reflect. You just deny the existance of -maximum res, multiple projectiles, shocking ground, added cold/fire/lightning damage, vulnerability and other nasty affixes, that can make mob's damage high enough to rape you in a second. You wont be able to recover fast enough, so your only defence will be stun and freeze. And if those fail, you're dead. I remeber many situations, where only Vaal Pact saved me from death, and noreflect was involved... For example, i desynced near a GMP rare voidbearer. When i resynced (after just one second), i had just 20% ES. What happened without VP? I wouldnt be able to recover = death.
Yeah, higher HPpool has benefits against one-shot bosses, like Dominus. But if you are smart, you will just skip those bosses (with hard mods at least), that's it. They are absolutely unrewarding and arent worth risk of dying even on softcore. You risk to lose experience from 5-10 previous maps, while if you "win" a boss, you get only few rares and very tiny amount of exp. You should kill DECADES of bosses to get those 10% experience back. So, why risk? Better just skip it.

You know, that my words are true, and in Hardcore league, they are TEN TIMES as true! Risking to die VS so tiny reward? NO WAY, TY!

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MortalKombat3 wrote:

So, you want to say, that 50% regen maps make MANA leech twice less powerful, while leaving LIFE leech unchanged? That look like a lie for me, sorry.

ES recovery is a separate thing, and it is heavily penaltized by Vulnerability mod, btw.

it appears that i was mistaken - so yes you're right on that point. But no one needs do that mod in HC unless they are well geared enough for it.

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MortalKombat3 wrote:

I will never agree that Vaal Pact's main purpose is to bypass reflect. You just deny the existance of -maximum res, multiple projectiles, shocking ground, added cold/fire/lightning damage, vulnerability and other nasty affixes, that can make mob's damage high enough to rape you in a second. You wont be able to recover fast enough, so your only defence will be stun and freeze. And if those fail, you're dead. I remeber many situations, where only Vaal Pact saved me from death, and noreflect was involved... For example, i desynced near a GMP rare voidbearer. When i resynced (after just one second), i had just 20% ES. What happened without VP? I wouldnt be able to recover = death.
Yeah, higher HPpool has benefits against one-shot bosses, like Dominus. But if you are smart, you will just skip those bosses (with hard mods at least), that's it. They are absolutely unrewarding and arent worth risk of dying even on softcore. You risk to lose experience from 5-10 previous maps, while if you "win" a boss, you get only few rares and very tiny amount of exp. You should kill DECADES of bosses to get those 10% experience back. So, why risk? Better just skip it.

You know, that my words are true, and in Hardcore league, they are TEN TIMES as true! Risking to die VS so tiny reward? NO WAY, TY!

I'm not sure what your point is. Those nasty affixes you talk about - they may play that in standard, but in HC, players do not play map affixes they cannot handle. Even a CI vaal pact build would not play a combination of those affixes that you just mentioned so I don't know what you're talking about. And yes, I play on HC.

Well i don't know if i should meddle on this,since i ve essentially quit the game and only log in every now and then,to chat with some friends or PvP abit.
MK3 is DEAD ON on vaal pact.VP is the absolutely BEST defense any kind of CI crit melee can ever have,no matter what main skill u use.As a point of reference you can have a video i did some time ago,with double crematorium boss with the hardest possible mods:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M9DMUbqHlZY

Now imagine this without istant leech.Also here is my gear



THe video was done with a 700ES 5L,not that it really matters.What does matter,is that i have respeced my character for PvP,essentially droping Vaal Pact which is useless there,and isntead i got more damage and more ES.With that spec,i run a few maps for the sake of notalgia,and i had close calls and actually died 2 times(i generally had almost no deaths from levels 89-93),in situations that would have been cake with VP-the first death wasnt due to reflect.Also just to mention that in maps 76-78,if the mods are particularly nasty,rare, or even blue mods, CAN hit u for 5-6K,imagine recovering that without vaal pact.
All these being said,i am not implying that playing without VP is IMPOSSIBLE,but i am almost sure,that unless u wanna kite all the time with LS-and if thats the case,why dont u just build an LA character- u WILL die much more frequenly than with VP.Not to mention maps like Vulnerability+phys reflect, or - max ele reflect etc etc.(And you WILL have to play them,cause most likely you will b playing in a full party,essentially paying fees after some point,so you can really ask for rerolls all the time.

Of course i dont wanna talk down to you Invalesco,u are a legend amongst shadows,and i ve built my character months ago,after being inspired by your build of the week video.It is just that many things have changed.Phys damage was buffed,godly daggers were crafted, making reflect all the more difficult with end game gear,also much harder enemies and bosses were introduced.

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Invalesco wrote:

I'm not sure what your point is. Those nasty affixes you talk about - they may play that in standard, but in HC, players do not play map affixes they cannot handle. Even a CI vaal pact build would not play a combination of those affixes that you just mentioned so I don't know what you're talking about. And yes, I play on HC.

So you skip most rewarding affixes just because your build sucks against them? And then you tell me, that you dont need Vaal Pact, to run WIDER amount of affixes without risk to die?
LOL!
Why dont run Lunaris temple, Docks, or level 70 maps till your eyes bleed? Equip Aegis Aurora, make a block build, and there is 1000000000% chance that you will ALWAYS stay alive, because mobs have absolutely no chance to kill you (at least, in Lunaris, where there is no chaos damage).
But, i suspect, that is too boring, and a good build should manage with mid- and high-level maps and their affixes. Every mod/combination you reroll means you lose currency for mapping. Why deny a keystone, that can make several mods safe?
50% regen? Just turning off Hatred, and if DPS is enough, map is easymod. Mana regains with flasks.
Reflect? If your damage isnt extremely high, it poses no threat.
High damage affixes? Yet again, you can leech-tank much higher damage.

Poutsos and MortalKombat3

To each his own really. I'm glad you guys like the concept of a CI crit dagger shadow, but it really is very tough to try and compare priorities between standard and HC.

I'm just giving a frank opinion as a HC player.

There are many ways to die, and Vaal Pact isn't the be-all of end all.

Yes, I would always have recommended it in the past when it was at the center of the tree and within easy reach - however, it's been moved and no longer within easy access.

There are reasons for not going vaal pact in HC
1. Higher ES = higher survivability, same reason HC builds stack life
2. It's not that easy to take a plunge and go all the way to the bottom of the tree and suffer for a number of levels without any substantial improvement in your character in HC - especially when you will struggle for those few levels.

Even with VP, I would never dare to facetank physical reflect mobs in maps. I would still kite them all the same - so it makes no difference to my playstyle. However, at least with a higher maximum ES I would have a larger damage buffer and will have a smaller chance of dying to other causes.

Standard and HC are different - different playstyles with different priorities. I was once a standard player so I know where you guys are coming from, but it really is difficult for a standard player to see this from a HC player's point of view where the playstyle priority is to stay alive > everything else and to avoid taking damage and just kiting effectively where possible instead of facetanking every mob.

At the end of the day - just go with whatever you feel you're most comfortable with and with what your playstyle requires - as what I stated in my original post. However, please do not assume that only your playstyle and opinion and yours alone is correct, and everyone else is wrong, and put them down, because that is not the point of this thread.

Thanks.