maps drop rate

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tehPadre wrote:

If its been said before .. sorry.

But it seems to me everyone is bitching and moaning about map drops, focusing on Pyramid runs and how its either a famine or feast depending on who you are (luck), and gearedness (IIQ). Pyramid runs are temporary .. get over it.

Has everyone here forgotten that ACT 3 has not yet been added? Moan about an alleged (read BS) endgame problem in beta thats missing content?? wtf?

jeez

How about test the damn things for bugs, provide decent feedback and NOT submit nonsensical rubbish about how endgame is broken.

And what makes you think that the third act won't run into the same problems that we're experiencing right now?

So instead of the Pyramids, we have some other place dubbed "Fortress" in Act 3 and now we have to farm Fortress again and again for maps with the exact same problems we have now. And if you read the dev diary, the endgame was meant for farming runs on whatever the last level is in whatever act.

We are providing feedback. Bugs are one thing and easily identifiable. Balance is another, a much harder issue to resolve, and that's what we're talking about here. And if you haven't noticed, people ARE providing ideas and solutions to overcome what they believe is the crux of the issue(s).

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Islidox wrote:

And what makes you think that the third act won't run into the same problems that we're experiencing right now?

So instead of the Pyramids, we have some other place dubbed "Fortress" in Act 3 and now we have to farm Fortress again and again for maps with the exact same problems we have now. And if you read the dev diary, the endgame was meant for farming runs on whatever the last level is in whatever act.

We are providing feedback. Bugs are one thing and easily identifiable. Balance is another, a much harder issue to resolve, and that's what we're talking about here. And if you haven't noticed, people ARE providing ideas and solutions to overcome what they believe is the crux of the issue(s).

And what makes you think that the problems will recur in ACT 3?

Making assumptions about an unfinished product are just that, assumptions! Trust in the GGG!

Honestly, by the time OB ACT3 Merc is played through, I wouldnt be suprised if maps (white) are a pretty mundane commodity.

But then if Im wrong, you'll be able to point out this post to me and give me the finger.

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tehPadre wrote:

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Islidox wrote:

And what makes you think that the third act won't run into the same problems that we're experiencing right now?

So instead of the Pyramids, we have some other place dubbed "Fortress" in Act 3 and now we have to farm Fortress again and again for maps with the exact same problems we have now. And if you read the dev diary, the endgame was meant for farming runs on whatever the last level is in whatever act.

We are providing feedback. Bugs are one thing and easily identifiable. Balance is another, a much harder issue to resolve, and that's what we're talking about here. And if you haven't noticed, people ARE providing ideas and solutions to overcome what they believe is the crux of the issue(s).

And what makes you think that the problems will recur in ACT 3?

Making assumptions about an unfinished product are just that, assumptions! Trust in the GGG!

Honestly, by the time OB ACT3 Merc is played through, I wouldnt be suprised if maps (white) are a pretty mundane commodity.

But then if Im wrong, you'll be able to point out this post to me and give me the finger.

It's not so much a matter of trust but commenting on what we know and what we see now. Of course, it doesn't mean that the way things are now is indicative of future, I agree. But then again, what's the point in wondering about the future when we have no idea what the future will be? (Nevermind the fact that the game is close to completion.)

You'll notice that I'm actively participating in this thread because it's something I believe will have an impact on how the game functions in endgame. And the endgame concerns me because it'll be that core concepts and ideas that KEEP players here than losing them due to bad gameplay mechanics. I've had my share of bad endgames in MMOs (this is my first ARPG of the Diablo type) and I don't want to see that happen here.

And lol, I wouldn't be as vindictive as to give someone the finger if he/she was wrong as long as we were being civil about it. Everyone gets to be wrong, no point in rubbing it in.

Glad to see someone else (Islidox) is coming to the same conclusion I've come to as to how things currently stand with Maps.

Hitting sixty and having to shelve all the good gear you've found in favour of Quantity gear in order to maintain a steady supply of maps is lame.

Not being able to find higher level maps beyond 60-62 as your character levels into the seventies is also lame.

I thought the current end game was supposed to be playing the maps, not playing in a way to find maps.

There's been a lot of good suggestions as to how to improve things, with the simplest being just decrease map rarity. Or even increase the chance for the map boss to drop a map so even with 0 plus quantity you're almost guaranteed a new map once you finish the current one.

Was sad to see the lastest patch didn't have any Map changes.

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Islidox wrote:

And what makes you think that the third act won't run into the same problems that we're experiencing right now?

..that its already addressed? Its announced that the upper areas of act 3 (last diff) will serve as deliverer of maps outside from maps itself. (and its now also the situation that the whole act 2 merciless can drop maps(!) - of course you have the best chances in the pyramid but thats no 'must', if other areas suite your char better...)

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We are providing feedback. ...Balance...

of course, but balancing a temporary issue is not that much needed discussion (or even complaining/demanding) effort... IMHO.

White maps are a big problem atm.

Just today I joined a Pyramid Run party, and lo and behold, just feet away from the teleport, a Crypt Map. It was conveniently listed alongside a bunch of other whites and other players were already many rooms away.

I told them and we played the map after defeating Vaal Oversoul. Then we found a second map and played that too. However these were nice players, whom trusted me with an Alch too, to make the map rare.

So, sure you can get some coop going with Maps atm, but it's more the exception than the rule. It requires too much proactive action on the part of players to get a coop Map going.

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Mr_Cee wrote:

..that its already addressed? Its announced that the upper areas of act 3 (last diff) will serve as deliverer of maps outside from maps itself. (and its now also the situation that the whole act 2 merciless can drop maps(!) - of course you have the best chances in the pyramid but thats no 'must', if other areas suite your char better...)

Why do you think going back to the last act, after spending hours and/or days inside endgame (maps) is a good game design? After I complete all the acts this game has to offer I want to dig into maps and never be 'forced' out of them. The quality/rarity/difficulty of said maps is fully up to me. But if the game forces me back into the last act due to no new maps dropping, then I'd say the game design is flawed.

Endgame will be so much more fun and rewarding if trading is done because of specific map mod difficulties which lead to specific rare item drops, not because you need to trade for maps to begin with.

Why would GGG come up with tons of interesting map mods, if all players will do is use orbs on them until they have massive/horde? It's just not polished enough, which is in no way shameful since it's a new feature. And neither do I think people in this topic are whining. All of this is more constructive then any discussion that goes on in most other failed games.

Go read back my suggestions a couple pages back. I did not even cry for more maps, I actually believe the current drop rate is too high once you fully go for more maps. I'd rather see a balanced stable mechanic that does the economy good. The way it is now seems to me as volatile and unbalanced.

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Ferumbras wrote:

Why do you think going back to the last act, after spending hours and/or days inside endgame (maps) is a good game design?

I dont said anything of this. The point I want to show up, was that 1) its not only the pyramid that can drop you maps - IF you run out of them within the maps.

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Ferumbras wrote:

I want to dig into maps and never be 'forced' out of them... if the game forces me back into the last act due to no new maps dropping, then I'd say the game design is flawed.

Its desired to be the normal case, that you'll find maps inside maps; but since its (of course, how else?) random, you have no guarantee on that... and then you need to have a way to get back into the endgame, elsewhere... (I found my first map in crossroads, and 2 maps inside this map so far, and since I wasnt able to handle the latest map stage with my remaining lives/portals, a guaranteed map drop on the boss would not have helped me)
If you run out of maps, its simply bad luck, and bad luck just happens. Look at the 'crafting' recipes, there's (nearly) NO fixed result on everything, all is designed to be based on some luck.

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Ferumbras wrote:

Endgame will be so much more fun and rewarding if trading is done because of specific map mod difficulties which lead to specific rare item drops, not because you need to trade for maps to begin with.

Both trades can and will add aspects to the game - some will need maps to start farming, some will seek for specific maps others cant handle, or even with mods a char is specialized on.

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Ferumbras wrote:

Why would GGG come up with tons of interesting map mods, if all players will do is use orbs on them until they have massive/horde? It's just not polished enough, which is in no way shameful since it's a new feature. And neither do I think people in this topic are whining. All of this is more constructive then any discussion that goes on in most other failed games.

Thats like it is, indeed. And thats not what I'm responded to - but to feedback which complains about the (non existent) need to farm (only) the pyramid for maps. This was already changed to include whole act 2; and it is not desired to have the endgame as a "free gift" after completing the base game - if you really have that bad luck, thats it.

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Ferumbras wrote:

I actually believe the current drop rate is too high once you fully go for more maps. I'd rather see a balanced stable mechanic that does the economy good. The way it is now seems to me as volatile and unbalanced.

You cant balance the map drop rate 'only' for people that be able to 'fully go for it', that would sort out a lot of the players that just managed to beat the game.
And again, I did not respond to your suggestions, but to others that imply from the (very new, jet to be balanced) actual stage to the upcoming behaviour within the changes at the 3rd act implementation, and thats silly.

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Mr_Cee wrote:

If you run out of maps, its simply bad luck, and bad luck just happens. Look at the 'crafting' recipes, there's (nearly) NO fixed result on everything, all is designed to be based on some luck.

Ok, please stop this. That's what we are all talking about since the begining of the this topic. Advancing in the game (and by "advancing" i mean: fighting appropriate level of mobs, and Finding appropriate level of gear to our characters) Shouldn't have to do anything with LUCK. And thats the main reason people are "whining". Nor it should have to do anything with a specific mod of equipment (a.k.a. IIQ). You have 100 maps in stash and you have 100%+ IIQ ? Ok, good for you. You dont have IIQ but you have found 10 maps? You're lucky ? ... good for you. You dont care if you're fighting 20 levels lower mobs than you ? Ok.. good for you. If there is Endgame content (now, we are not talking about the future act 3 in here) why should we spend our time in a WELL KNOWN areas, huh ? Maybe 4 times per toon isn't enough for you ppl ? .. you want to replay it once more ?.. I dont want rare maps to rain down.. i dont want unique maps with tons of chests and IIR...

If there are Random maps, with random mobs, with random drops, with random areas, A.K.A. - ALL FUN... why we should be stuck in Pyramid grinding 20 level lower mobs ? - A.K.A. - BORED AS HELL... rather than experiencing the new content ? ... I just can't follow the logic.

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Serika wrote:

I formulated it a bit badly. What I should have said is, that I don't like the fact that easy maps which are just larger with more stuff in it seem to give equal rewards as hard maps with lots of modifieres.

Even lvl 60-61 maps can pose a real challenge if the wrong mobs & environment (dungeons with clutter, stairs) for my spec are present. I rolled a blue map after originally posting yesterday. 69% larger & 94% added light dmg. One good stat & one extremely dangerous stat.

I lost 1/4 of a level from deaths. I also got 5 maps, 2 alchs, 2 fusings, 2 6 sockets & a partridge in a pear tree. The riches were worth the effort but I certainly paid a price for them.

The mods rolled on a map do not guarantee a walk in the park. This range in challenge is fantastic & keeps us guessing.

Sorry if this is straying off topic. I do think there needs to be a balance with the droprate. Seems like every 3 days a few of my friends & I will separately get 5 maps+ in a dungeon. This droprate feels uneven. While I dont mind selling them, Id rather see lvl 60 maps drop in whatever zone being farmed currently & in the future.