Looting -- The official thread for discussing the loot system. Updated 18th March, 2013.

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thepmrc wrote:

I see people are still threatened by loot options. So sad.

Wait? Theres someone threatened by loot options? Funny, i remember being against lame ideas not threatended.



I mean common. We all know what people really want, and thats is instanced loot or FFA. Extending timers is just a band-aid for a bad idea. Bad idea being loot timers in the 1st place. Loot timers are still the biggest problem with loot. Timers are unfair and promote a half ass instanced loot/ffa type of enviroment.

Do we really need a whole shit load of options for loot?

What about people who want instant respecs? Should they be left out? Why can't they have an option? Does that mean people against those lame ideas are wrong?

How about people who suck at the game? Should they be left out? Why can't there be an easier option for them to decrease monster health and damage. Who am i to judge right?


Give in to what the people want. Because the masses are always right. Right?

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XCodes wrote:

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EgypZee wrote:

Who is going to choose a FFA public game? answer: only people wtih very fast run speed that are confident they can loot faster then most everyone else.

False. People will choose FFA based on personal preference.

I think its kind of funny how fast you claim its false when thats exactly what i will be doing. :D

Also, its been proven to death. Majority players will always pick the path of least resistance in games. I could sit here all day proving that. but i won't bother.

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Vooodu wrote:

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thepmrc wrote:

I see people are still threatened by loot options. So sad.

Wait? Theres someone threatened by loot options? Funny, i remember being against lame ideas not threatended.



I mean common. We all know what people really want, and thats is instanced loot or FFA. Extending timers is just a band-aid for a bad idea. Bad idea being loot timers in the 1st place. Loot timers are still the biggest problem with loot. Timers are unfair and promote a half ass instanced loot/ffa type of enviroment.

Do we really need a whole shit load of options for loot?

What about people who want instant respecs? Should they be left out? Why can't they have an option? Does that mean people against those lame ideas are wrong?

How about people who suck at the game? Should they be left out? Why can't there be an easier option for them to decrease monster health and damage. Who am i to judge right?


Give in to what the people want. Because the masses are always right. Right?

While I feel the second half of your post is completely asinine slippery slope sillyness, you do have a point.

There only needs to be two options. Instanced and FFA. The timer system is very bad and I have been saying that since its inception. It is the worst loot system I have ever seen in any game.

And you can say you are just 'against lame ideas' like loot options, but you are very obviously threatened by them as you have been on the defensive since the devs made their intentions public.... and you are not the only one.

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EgypZee wrote:

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Seraphyna wrote:

I don't understand why this is even an issue.

Just make it so that party leader sets loot-rule upon party creation. Those that want to play FFA can go ahead, those that prefer to play with designated loot can do so, don't like the loot rules in your group? Form your own group or join another.

End of story. Gosh >.>;

Gosh is right, it is a big deal.

If you join public games, this change is likely to VASTLY change the pace, how you play, how you build your character, decisions about placement in combat, and if and how you make friends in game.

FFA loot only works as a game mechanic if its unavoidable, once you can just 'opt out' then it is just added difficulty that most people will avoid.

Who is going to choose a FFA public game? answer: only people wtih very fast run speed that are confident they can loot faster then most everyone else.

So, if you like the game fast pace with everyone paying attention and up front but also like to share and play cooperatively you will be out of luck. Unless GGG does something to incentivize people to use modes other than slowest timer, many of us predict it will be the only choice.

Try to understand, some people enjoy the dash and grab aspect of the game, some don't. Give the players the power to choose what kind of party environment they want to play in. Heck sometimes I enjoy playing in a FFA environment and my friends and I do have sessions where anything and everything is up for grabs. That is our decision though and when we do this we all have a mutual understanding that no drama can come out of.

If you're trying to assert that FFA adds a level of challenge and excitement to the game, I can understand that. What you have to understand though is that what you enjoy might not be the same as what others would. You might like to zoom around snatching people's stuff and find it fun when your stuff is nabbed but there are alot of players that finds this incredibly annoying and even a turn off for grouping. Hence why parties should be able to identify with what playstyle they will go with, so that those who do not enjoy ninja'ing or being ninja'd from do not have to put up with such things.

Finally to sum up about 'Incentives', control over loot-rules would give players much more incentive to group together and play co-op. Which, in my opinion at least, is more important than to give you more opportunities to ninja or to add the illusion of difficulty to the game.

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Vooodu wrote:

Majority players will always pick the path of least resistance in games. I could sit here all day proving that. but i won't bother.

Your assumption is probably correct. I doubt FFA will be a popular choice, but here's the thing: So what? If 20 of the 25 games listed are timed loot, and 5 are FFA, is that such an issue?

I honestly don't think it would be, but all I can do is speculate.

Also,

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is more important than to give you more opportunities to ninja or to add the illusion of difficulty to the game.

This is where I stand as well. Though I like FFA 'cause it is still "fun".

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Seraphyna wrote:

Try to understand, some people enjoy the dash and grab aspect of the game, some don't. Give the players the power to choose what kind of party environment they want to play in.

You might like to zoom around snatching people's stuff.

Well, what about people who want full instant respecs? How about people who complain about drops or the difficulty of the game? These are all apsects of the game people don't enjoy.

Are you saying only loot should have options and everthing else should be ignored?


Also, FFA loot is not about snatching peoples stuff.

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Vooodu wrote:

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Seraphyna wrote:

Try to understand, some people enjoy the dash and grab aspect of the game, some don't. Give the players the power to choose what kind of party environment they want to play in.

You might like to zoom around snatching people's stuff.

Well, what about people who want full instant respecs? How about people who complain about drops or the difficulty of the game? These are all apsects of the game people don't enjoy.

Are you saying only loot should have options and everthing else should be ignored?


Also, FFA loot is not about snatching peoples stuff.

Well, giving loot options doesn't break the game balance so its not really a fair comparison. It is a completely different debate and has a much more profound impact on the game and its longevity. These are not even in the same ballpark.

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Vooodu wrote:

Well, what about people who want full instant respecs? How about people who complain about drops or the difficulty of the game? These are all apsects of the game people don't enjoy.

False equivalency. FFA loot doesn't affect the difficulty of the game. FFA loot only affects the enjoyment of the game. The game difficulty remains utterly unchanged with allocated loot. The same amount of loot drops. The same monsters are fought to make the loot drop. The same total amount of loot is acquired by the player base. All that's affected is which players get which pieces.

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Also, FFA loot is not about snatching peoples stuff.

FFA loot is about snatching people's stuff.

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Xaxyx wrote:

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Vooodu wrote:

Well, what about people who want full instant respecs? How about people who complain about drops or the difficulty of the game? These are all apsects of the game people don't enjoy.

False equivalency. FFA loot doesn't affect the difficulty of the game. FFA loot only affects the enjoyment of the game.

FFA loot is about snatching people's stuff.

Well, technically. People who want the other things i mentioned are doing it from a mindset of what they would enjoy.

I mean, full respect doesn't make the game difficult does it? But im pretty sure most of us would be against it.


And FFA loot is and never was about snatching 'peoples' stuff. Its about grabbing monsters drops. I mean, i know i can't speak for you. But when i played D2 i never considered drops on the ground as other peoples stuff.

Hence the term, Free for All.

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Vooodu wrote:

Well, technically. People who want the other things i mentioned are doing it from a mindset of what they would enjoy.

The other things you mentioned affect game difficulty. FFA loot does not.

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I mean, full respect [sic] doesn't make the game difficult does it? But im pretty sure most of us would be against it.

Full respecs for characters would directly and significantly affect game difficulty. People would be free to wholly convert their characters on a whim from one mode of play to another, completely and utterly re-architecturing their characters to meet different challenges, face difficult bosses, customer-tailor their character to mesh in a particular multi-player setting, handle a map with a particular set of effects, and so forth.

By no coincidence, there are extremely few players petitioning for free, unlimited character respecs. The throng of players petitioning for allocated loot, on the other hand, produces a deafening chorus. Not that quantity should necessarily factor toward the legitimacy of the stance, mind you. But the distinction is striking.

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And FFA loot is and never was about snatching 'peoples' stuff. Its about grabbing monsters drops. I mean, i know i can't speak for you. But when i played D2 i never considered drops on the ground as other peoples stuff.

Nor would I deign to speak for you. But when I played D2 I found the grotesque unfairness and imbalance of its free-for-all loot system a major turnoff, such that I never, ever played in a public game. Much like I never, ever play in public games of PoE, for precisely the same reason.

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Hence the term, Free for All.

Also known as "anarchy". Hardly a reliable system of fair play. Or fun.