Looting -- The official thread for discussing the loot system. Updated 18th March, 2013.

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Vooodu wrote:

Wow, this post pretty much says it all. Theres nothing really more to say. This is the 100% TRUTH and basically points out just how pathetic people really are.

Ignorance is bliss, right?

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mibuwolf wrote:

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Vooodu wrote:

Wow, this post pretty much says it all. Theres nothing really more to say. This is the 100% TRUTH and basically points out just how pathetic people really are.

Ignorance is bliss, right?

I think you mean the truth hurts. Il post it again. Infact everytime someone says something stupid im gonna respost it. Saves me key strokes since that post says it all.

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Crackmonster wrote:

Well, since we are resorting to low level arguments about who is the bigger greeder, lets get at it shall we.

You claim it is my greed, yet, it appears you are the one who cannot accept to lose something with your name on it. It appears it you who can't handle playing normally in an ARPG. Why is this? Simply because your greed hurts so much you cannot take it. You cannot let go of your greed. The problem is yours, yet i am sure it would make you feel better if you can blame someone else.

In your dreamworld you would love to imagine how i am abusing FFA loot to take just about everything from everyone, and how i never lose anything.

That is not the case. Neither do i leave a party if its full of all fast ninjalooters, i enjoy it, even if it means i will only get my share or even less when i am slacking, because i know it creates a more memorable game instead of "standard level: content".

Admittedly, it can get frustrating sometimes, life is never straight down the road, and i can recognize the type of frustration that comes from having insufficient ability compared to those around you when i see how all of you feel so tight on this topic. It's like touching a wound. It's honestly mad coz bad there is no other way to say it.

All who do not want FFA loot are mad coz bad. All who want FFA loot are greedy ninjalooters.

That is the full extend of your own argument, and since it you are arguing for no FFA, then, by your own reasoning, you must be bad.

The crying masses will always attempt to cry their way to rights that will protect them and give them something they have not earned, because by definition they are not as good as the better, and therefore cannot gain it through performance alone. Since they are the mediocre masses they will also be affected by lack of wisdom and forethought, which results in many suffering from bad habbits such desire, envy. To beg for rules to protect you from your true worth being reflected is the crying masses way of gaining power. If it works they are habitual creatures who will not stop, as all humans are.

In addition, ability to play, level of frustration with FFA and how much you contribute to group play is all proportional if your sample size is great enough, and hence, the less that you get is offset by what you in general bring to a party. You must look at the bigger picture. You just want to get carried, get more loot than your performance reflects. This is undeserved loot, taken away from those who earned it.

And i am sorry to break it to you, but the devs, by implementing free choice, are recognizing that there are just too many baddies out there, and they also want them to be able to play. How else would have find someone to ninjaloot from? They do however know exactly how this type of game is best played and if they had to choose only one there would be no doubt in their minds. It's all in the manifesto, read between the lines.

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The rest of this exercise will be entertaining for everyone, but this point, here and now, is really the heart of the matter. The very DEFINITION of greed lies completely beyond your grasp. You are unable (not even unwilling; this doesn't even necessary speak toward character) to understand the fundamental distinction between defense of one's own and the lust for that which is possessed by others. To you, they are one and the same. To you, there is no line to cross, no inherent sense of respect or compassion to be held ideal.

To you, only the strong deserve victory; this you would call bravery, when it is in fact the most base form of cowardice. To you, only the merciless deserve reward; this you would label honor, when it is in fact the simplest manifestation of a wholly psychopathic lack of empathy. To you, only the passionate deserve the world; this you would call determination, when it is really an addiction to inflicting misery and suffering on those who you are convinced are your inferiors.

An entertaining anecdote,

Many things you have assumed, and many thing you have misunderstood. We can can start from the basic math that the amount of annoyance produced by "mad coz bad" in regards to ninjalooting is proportional to both the amount of loot you get and your contribution to the group in terms of causing drops.

You are not getting less than you have earned.

I know you wish I was a crazed sociopath excelling at greed by the cost of others, but in fact, it is about competing. I know those who draw shorter straws in the evolutionary game like to pretend that there is no point to competition, but it just happens to be so that evolution develops us through competition.

You speak in extremes, either you are with me or you are against me, either its heaven or its hell. The surprising thing is that you are aware. You are about balance inside, but you are playing the role of the extremist here. To you, toying with other's emotions is a game you enjoy and carry out regularly. You do not care what is the reality, or even about giving others the real background to develop their understanding from. No, you prefer to plant the seed of confusion so that you may shine in the midst of its growth. A cheap chick in the evolutionary ladder, trying to get others to appear worse instead of shining through inner growth, and giving your best to others to promote their growth, instead of misleading them.

Somehow i am not surprised you want them to give you loot you do not deserve.

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Herein I will agree: parties full of ninjalooters are indeed the most memorable. I myself can fondly recall the few times I dared wade into the public arena, only to discover myself accompanied by individuals of your ilk, forced to discover the deep thrill of "loot tension" (it's a two-step process: somebody takes my loot; I get tense). But these are not the sorts of memories I cherish. Neither do nine hundred pages of others. This is what has inspired the devs to change their games. Us. Not you.

In your great insecurity you never mustered the courage to make a stand, and find your place among the lions. I imagine it must have been a scary experience for you to play with the others in this world.

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Um, okay. I'm a "bad" player. I'm terrible at the game, just awful. I'm slow, I'm incompetent. I stand in fire. I'm undeserving of the rich, delicious thrill of the ninja looting experience. And you're a better player than me. I envy you. You're awesome, I suck. There. Do I get to stay the hell away from you, now? Can I be guaranteed not to be abused and bullied in a goddamn video game, now?

It is only the consequence of your own apparent reasoning: Extrapolate the tendency to the extreme towards whatever side you flavor. It is not always a good idea to play with a double edged sword.

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Pity is the only emotion that I'm capable of conjuring forth for you. Quiet, soft, incredulous pity. I can only feel sorry for any human being who is so thoroughly convinced at the supposedly inherent baseness of human nature. Luckily for the rest of us, and contrary to the exception, humanity is largely comprised of generous, compassionate beings, who look out for one another, help one another, work together cooperatively for a better world for all.

Surely there are many generous compassionate beings out there, however, you are showing yourself not to be one of them. Why, one might ask, why would you tell me you have pity for me? What is the purpose? The purpose is to toy with my emotion for your entertainment, to take my shine and feast on it. That reveals you are neither acting generously nor compassionately.

It bears greater resemblence to dark witchcraft and sacrifice of other's innocence. I am happy you have shown everyone which afflictions beset those who would argue against FFA loot.

You have many funny taunts for me, it greatly entertains me, but at the end of the day you are the one with the problem. I can't say i am sorry that they will add a mode for the slackers to play, it should mean we have less leechers and more people who are able to play well and thereby contribute to a higher experience gain than those who just want to slack around, hopefully getting in some good parties where they will get their even-percentage share of the work done by the "good party".

Just a shame all the good parties will be with FFA so you will be biting yourself in the leg by getting this new mode. Right now you have the loot timer duration to get more than you deserve, but when that is removed you will be worse off than before.

Such happens when people convince themselves they understand matters which they have not yet seen enough to understand. It is indeed a double edged sword. That is why GGG should not listen to the crying masses, they will always want to make the game into another D3.

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Crackmonster wrote:

I wish i had your way with words threads over everyone

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Crackmonster wrote:

Many things you have assumed, and many thing you have misunderstood. We can can start from the basic math that the amount of annoyance produced by "mad coz bad" in regards to ninjalooting is proportional to both the amount of loot you get and your contribution to the group in terms of causing drops.

You are not getting less than you have earned.

If in fact it were design intent for "bad" players, as you term them, to receive less loot, then the devs would have built a loot system that proportionately awards loot to players based on their individual performance. Yet, mysteriously, this does not occur. Thus, your psuedo-mathematical model collapses under its own weight. Instead, the only mechanic that causes poor performing players to earn less loot is group performance. In that respect, the group's efficiency is evaluated as a whole. If the group you're trying to ninja from -- oh, sorry, experiencing loot tension with -- isn't earning loot at a rate to your satisfaction, then find another group. I'm sure there's plenty of victims for you just around the corner.

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I know you wish I was a crazed sociopath excelling at greed by the cost of others, but in fact, it is about competing. I know those who draw shorter straws in the evolutionary game like to pretend that there is no point to competition, but it just happens to be so that evolution develops us through competition.

Your view of competition is narrow, blinding you from the more objective, broader view. Competition in this game isn't against other players. It's against monsters. Players don't drop loot. Monsters do. This principle is readily demonstrated, first and foremost, by the obvious fact that players can play BY THEMSELVES and still earn loot. There's no competition between players in solo play, by raw definition. How then can competition be said to play some sort of intrinsic role in this game's loot system? Clearly, it cannot.

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You speak in extremes, either you are with me or you are against me, either its heaven or its hell. The surprising thing is that you are aware. You are about balance inside, but you are playing the role of the extremist here. To you, toying with other's emotions is a game you enjoy and carry out regularly. You do not care what is the reality, or even about giving others the real background to develop their understanding from. No, you prefer to plant the seed of confusion so that you may shine in the midst of its growth. A cheap chick in the evolutionary ladder, trying to get others to appear worse instead of shining through inner growth, and giving your best to others to promote their growth, instead of misleading them.

Emphasis mine. Herein, we witness a fascinating, textbook example of psychological projection, wherein a person, unable or unwilling to embrace his own negative qualities, instead attempts to ascribe them to those who would expose him. Thus: he does not suffer lack of empathy; only his accuser does. He is not exhibiting anti-social personality disorder traits; only those who would deign to criticize his behavior act in such a fashion.

Those anti-social personality disorder traits, by the way, list as follows (see if these remind you of anyone):

1) Callous unconcern for the feelings of others;
2) Gross and persistent attitude of irresponsibility and disregard for social norms, rules, and obligations;
3) Incapacity to maintain enduring relationships, though having no difficulty in establishing them;
4) Very low tolerance to frustration and a low threshold for discharge of aggression, including violence;
5) Incapacity to experience guilt or to profit from experience, particularly punishment;
6) Marked readiness to blame others or to offer plausible rationalizations for the behavior that has brought the person into conflict with society.

Let's keep these principles in mind as we review the remainder of this blathering screed, shall we?

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Somehow i am not surprised you want them to give you loot you do not deserve.

6) Marked readiness to blame others. Clearly it's my own fault that I lost the loot to the ninja. Blame the victim!

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In your great insecurity you never mustered the courage to make a stand, and find your place among the lions. I imagine it must have been a scary experience for you to play with the others in this world.

1) Callous unconcern for the feelings of others. Sad, that you need to use your imagination to make this observation. Those of us who experience actual, genuine empathy know better.

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It is only the consequence of your own apparent reasoning: Extrapolate the tendency to the extreme towards whatever side you flavor. It is not always a good idea to play with a double edged sword.

I'm not all that interested in lessons from you on how to play with one's own sword, thanks awfully.

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Surely there are many generous compassionate beings out there, however, you are showing yourself not to be one of them.

5) Incapacity to experience guilt. Here again we see the projection principle. The loot ninja, dedicated to bullying and abuse of other players, accuses others of mistreating him, of hurting his feelings. Imagine him now, hands folded, eyes wide and blinking in innocence -- not FEIGNED innocence, mind you, but real, actual, genuine shock and dismay at being accused of being the aggressor, the bad guy, in the scenario at hand, as he truly does believe that he is in the right, that he is justified in his actions. How DARE we accuse him of being malicious? How DARE we take offense at his actions? How DARE we try to change the rules in our favor? That's how far down the rabbit hole really goes, sadly.

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Why, one might ask, why would you tell me you have pity for me? What is the purpose? The purpose is to toy with my emotion for your entertainment, to take my shine and feast on it. That reveals you are neither acting generously nor compassionately.

Or perhaps I really do feel sorry for the wretched state of your heart. But this you cannot possibly allow yourself to believe, for it would involve some genuine soul-searching and inner contemplation -- actions you dare not allow yourself to undertake, for if you did, the whole house of cards that is your worldview might disintegrate like so much fluff.

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It bears greater resemblence to dark witchcraft and sacrifice of other's innocence. I am happy you have shown everyone which afflictions beset those who would argue against FFA loot.

Now see, here I would have gone with animal torture. You know, something tangible, jarring, attention-grabbing. It seems pretty obvious, really. Pssh, amateurs.

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You have many funny taunts for me, it greatly entertains me, but at the end of the day you are the one with the problem. I can't say i am sorry that they will add a mode for the slackers to play, it should mean we have less leechers and more people who are able to play well and thereby contribute to a higher experience gain than those who just want to slack around, hopefully getting in some good parties where they will get their even-percentage share of the work done by the "good party".

2) Gross and persistent attitude of irresponsibility. So now you're IN FAVOR of multiple loot modes? Make up your mind, man. I've been sitting up ALL NIGHT writing down more ways to mock and belittle your deranged opinions. And now you just up and switch sides? That's not fair!

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Just a shame all the good parties will be with FFA so you will be biting yourself in the leg by getting this new mode. Right now you have the loot timer duration to get more than you deserve, but when that is removed you will be worse off than before.

4) Very low tolerance to frustration. But don't you worry about no longer having victims to abuse, Crackmonster. There'll always be some new game where you can heroically don the mask of Internet anonymity and pretend to be tough and powerful as you bully others. Keep the faith.

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Such happens when people convince themselves they understand matters which they have not yet seen enough to understand. It is indeed a double edged sword. That is why GGG should not listen to the crying masses, they will always want to make the game into another D3.

3) Incapacity to maintain enduring relationships. How sad for you that your gods have abandoned you. But it's their game. Not yours, not mine. Theirs. They've chosen to listen to their player base and change their game for the better. For this suppose sin, you would abandon them?

Wow. I'm pretty sure he managed to hit ALL SIX distinct features of anti-social personality disorder in a single post. An impressive display. But now, of course, projection compels -- DEMANDS -- that he engage in the desperate attempt to bend and contort these principles to apply to those of us who oppose his views, to those of us who champion fairness of play. They'll appear as personal attacks on me, of course, since I'm the one presenting a target for him. But really they're aimed at the principles I'm defending. Fair play, in his eyes, is the enemy. Thus, it must be denigrated, derided, torn down, along with its defenders. You'll see. It'll be classic.

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Creeping forth from any Crack - I am the light of the morning and the shadow on the wall, I am nothing and I am all.

Well, at least now we know which crack he crept out of.

you snooze, you lose!

A worthy effort, but futile!

This conflict bores me. If only you were to touch on the subject more, but rather you are focusing your posts on the person, me.

I do sometimes like being the center of attention, but it quickly gets too much.

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2) Gross and persistent attitude of irresponsibility. So now you're IN FAVOR of multiple loot modes? Make up your mind, man. I've been sitting up ALL NIGHT writing down more ways to mock and belittle your deranged opinions. And now you just up and switch sides? That's not fair!

Here you move from opinion into fact, and you get it wrong. A long time ago i came here and i was against multiple systems, but not for this round of combat. I merely argued FFA vs SML (slack mode loot).

And here, for the final GG i suggest you take a closer look at my signature

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I am the light of the morning and the shadow on the wall, I am nothing and I am all.

You attempt to desribe I, but I am everything and nothing at the same time.

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Crackmonster wrote:

A worthy effort, but futile!

I do not think that word means what you think it means.

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This conflict bores me. If only you were to touch on the subject more, but rather you are focusing your posts on the person, me.

Uh-oh, it's the "I'm done with this thread" meme! Soon to be followed by the "I wasn't going to post again, but I just HAD to respond..." meme.

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Here you move from opinion into fact, and you get it wrong. A long time ago i came here and i was against multiple systems, but not for this round of combat. I merely argued FFA vs SML (slack mode loot).

Soooo... now you're in favor of allowing both allocated loot and FFA (frolicking, frothing assholes) loot? But despite this, you're droning on and on about how yours is better? And you think MY posts are pointless?

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And here, for the final GG i suggest you take a closer look at my signature

I've seen quite enough of your crack for my own comfort, thanks.

ITT people try to argue that FFA is a life philosophy.