Looting -- The official thread for discussing the loot system. Updated 18th March, 2013.

I really dont think a hostile approach like "Adapt or gtfo" is going to be good for a game like path of exile in regards to its main mechanic that all ARPGs rely on... loot gathering.
It would be easier for GGG to have full FFA in if the game did cost money to purchase and had a montly cost and was aimed solely at Diablo 1&2 veterans target group.
But as a F2P game it needs to capture interest, be fun and exciting.
And most of all, not annoy potential customers too much.

Let me tell you a story:
I saw someone mentioning Path of exile somewhere.
I tried solo just to have fun, i tried partying with friends and had fun.
I bought supporter pack for the music and kiwi pet.
I learnt the lore of the game, learnt game mechanics.
Then took a long time to think, how will this crash and burn.
And it was as obvious as daylight, FFA loot...
That and other issues i wont discuss in this thread.

So i thought how do i avoid jackasses?
Well a 3rd party program that is connected to a google document or something that detects if players joins my party and kicks them if they arent on that list.
It already exists for modern warfare 2 i think, because people had to enforce their own laws because the devs didnt care enough to make an anti-jackass enviroment.
And that is my plan too, if i ever play in FFA loot enforced enviroment, ill kick every single one that isnt on the "Whitelist" so as to have fun with people that are reasonably trustworthy.
If that tool cost money, its highly likely ill pay for an anti-jackass kick tool rather then microtransaction items from GGG.
As i play to have fun and relax.
Not to worry about jackasses being there to make my life annoying.

This is me thinking as a casual gamer with interest in having fun and not being annoyed in an otherwise fun game.

I played Guildwars 1, Guildwars 2, Diablo 1, Diablo 2, Dablo 3, Torchlight 1, Torchlight 2, World of warcraft aswell.

Out of those games Diablo 1 and 2 had FFA loot.
That was not something i enjoyed at all.

Guildwars 1 used 15 min loot timer method, and it was fun to play.
(Not sure about the time, but i could drink water, make dinner and eat dinner and the loot would still be mine when i got back.
Though i have to state that guildwars 1 was 99% about players skill rather then gear)

Guild wars 2, Diablo 3 and Torchlight 2 used instanced loot, which also worked good.

WoW used a dice rolls, and showed which party member got what item in chat.
It was an acceptable system too.

So if i had to grade the systems, id rather have instanced over timed, and if timed is used id much rather see a super long timer of lets say 40+ minutes or even much more as that allows for loot hauling to town to sell.
Infinite timer would also work.

Dice rolling to determine loot rights already happens anyway in PoE.

GGG needs to learn from other games instead of copying mistakes.

(These are my experiences with loot-drop methods)

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Jackel6672 wrote:

1. Or just have it timed FFA so if you don't pay attention you lose it.

Why are you suggesting what we already have? People lose items when they are paying attention. Stupid system.

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Jackel6672 wrote:

2. A white list keeps being discussed, which you yourself said that you would support making one.

What did I say and when? I seriously am not sure what your talking about.

Edit: I am pretty confident that I never supported any "white list"

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Jackel6672 wrote:

That's why I said the friends list is as close to a white list as the devs will go, because as you said, people are playing the way it was meant to be played.

Single player is the way its meant to be played according to the devs. If your referring to the loot system no people aren't using it the way it was meant to be used. Few people experience loot tension since they are playing single player or with friends. Fail system.

Infinite timers is a dumb idea.
Separating player base into different leagues based on what loot timers they want is a horrible idea.

The answer is simple: party leader sets loot timer. Options are simple: A) What it's currently at or B) currently at + 10 seconds. You can only change the options while in town to avoid swapping around in the middle of game.

If you don't like what leader has set, don't play with him. Simple.

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iamstryker wrote:

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Jackel6672 wrote:

1. Or just have it timed FFA so if you don't pay attention you lose it.

Why are you suggesting what we already have? People lose items when they are paying attention. Stupid system.

"

Jackel6672 wrote:

2. A white list keeps being discussed, which you yourself said that you would support making one.

What did I say and when? I seriously am not sure what your talking about.

Edit: I am pretty confident that I never supported any "white list"

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Jackel6672 wrote:

That's why I said the friends list is as close to a white list as the devs will go, because as you said, people are playing the way it was meant to be played.

Single player is the way its meant to be played according to the devs. If your referring to the loot system no people aren't using it the way it was meant to be used. Few people experience loot tension since they are playing single player or with friends. Fail system.

Eh, all valid points I guess. I'm done debating about all this because it goes in loops.

Also, chances are you probably didn't say that about the white list. I work a lot so I get back and there's around 7 to 8 new pages to sort through. I'm spending more time on here then playing, which isn't good for me.

Best valid points I feel came out of this whole discussion:
Loot timer needs extended a little. Game is how the devs want and we will argue till our cheeks are blue and likely nothing very little will amount of it. Loot system needs to be fixed so people can't take items of others till the timer is over.

This is my final post in here. Hopefully something meaningful amounts of all this.

This is a tough issue. I personally always disliked FFA and so one of the very few redeeming qualities of D3 was personal loot. I don't think the original idea from Chris of the <= 1 second timer is reasonable either. I would think 5-6 seconds is more than enough time and if you don't react within that amount of time so be it, you lose your loot. I also definitely think the best option is to make it up to the party leader because options are better than dictated rules. They can set FFA or assigned loot but the assigned lock should be a reasonable amount of time. Is it too much to ask for both options? Probably.

That being said, I also don't mind rolling for loot either. I prefer that over the penalty I suffer due to the fact that I like playing ranged characters so I'm usually no where near the loot drop and therefore get effed more often than not in an FFA looting system. If FFA or an unreasonably short timer are the only options I'll only group with friends and lacking those I'll solo.

I know it has been hashed out quite a bit here, but thought I would put my 2 cents in just because.

I play solo mostly, mainly due to the loot system the way it is. In group, my normal way of doing things is to be sure that combat is over before looking around for loot to grab. I am one of those players that think that everyone should be concentrating on killing mobs when mobs are around and not worrying about what items dropped until the combat is over.

It is not that I don't pay attention to what has dropped, it is that I would rather not have to divide my attention when in combat. There have been many instances where I would see an item with my character name on it and by the time I get to it, someone else has decided that they wanted it and taken it right when I get next to the item.

If I see items with other players names on it, I will leave it alone regardless of them being near or not, I am just that type of player. I also expect those I group with to have the same ethics when it comes to loot. For this reason, public groups are not anything that I will ever consider, regardless of the circumstances.

Now, with all that being said, how can this be addressed? In all the games I have played in the past that were multi-player, I prefer the option of the group leader setting the loot terms. This way the loot option can be agreed upon before we even start off and there shouldn't be any hard feelings because of the loot rule. If that is not an option, the the next best thing for me is instanced loot. Every aspect of the game I play is based on not being cut throat so why would I want the loot system to be based on it?

If a cut throat system is what is desired, then make the game 100% PvP with cut throat loot and call it good, that way the loot system is in line with the play style. With most of the aspects of the game being cooperative, the cut throat system for loot makes no sense and just creates enemies from friends.

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Jackel6672 wrote:

Best valid points I feel came out of this whole discussion:
Loot timer needs extended a little. Game is how the devs want and we will argue till our cheeks are blue and likely nothing very little will amount of it. Loot system needs to be fixed so people can't take items of others till the timer is over.

This is my final post in here. Hopefully something meaningful amounts of all this.

This seems to be something that most poster agree on. Even the most adamant FFA(Red) players will admit that increasing the base timer would be a good thing.

With the current pace of co-op I feel that 5-10 seconds for melee and 10-15 for ranged would be an acceptable compromise. Devs would need to add the ability to ctrl-click to clear ownership. This should apply to default/hardcore. GGG would then be able to shorten the loot timer in races to increase tension without punishing new players.

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wrathmar wrote:

Even the most adamant FFA(Red) players will admit that increasing the base timer would be a good thing.

Yeah, because a change/options is inevitable. And this is for reds choosing the lesser evil. Right.

I love the size of this thread :-p

I dont understand why the discussion is still going on.

Yes, FFA loot might have some interestign aspects, but the longer I think about it the worse FFA seems to me.

The problem is:
FFA loot has positive sides but the negative ones are TREMENDIOUS

Not just like "tremendous" but rather like "HOLY-SHIT-IS-THIS-BAD-TREMENDOUS"

Those are

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1, Screen gets zerged by Items so noone can see anything(instanced loot makes scanning loot a lot mor comfortable)

2, FFA loot distracts people from fighting

Getting mad about items beeing stolen is just a downside. Social disintegration in the game is also not too bad(everybody plays solo and has fun)

but 1, and 2, is absolutly destructive in my opinion. Those 2 points will heavily outweight every positive aspect of FFA loot BY FAR.

I am 100% sure that GGG WILL NOT implement FFA-loot as only option, because it makes no sense.
Still I have some worries, because FFA-Loot would make parting up a lot less enjoyable.(just because of 1, and 2,)

I dont see any valid point why FFA should be implemented as the only concept.