Looting -- The official thread for discussing the loot system. Updated 18th March, 2013.
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moikpei wrote:
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Jackel6672 wrote:
I feel it might not be enough for most of the people arguing for instanced though.
It's possible that most people arguing for instanced are simply using that as a placeholder stance. I've been arguing for instanced but a ten second timer would for sure cover me. I just need enough time to deal with the immediate crowd of monsters, then I'm good to go back and loot.
Most games are all about maximizing efficiency. Once Reds have to risk losing something good because they are waiting to pick up an item that they would vendor for some shards they will adjust their play style. I think a 10-15 second timer would be an excellent compromise.
With an extended timer if you see a ranger chilling next to the rare bow you have enough time chose to keep it for yourself; pick it up and give it them, let the timer give it to them, or alt click to clear the timer.
Infinite timer is NOT instanced loot, and is a really really bad idea. Imagine seeing all the items a player misses or just doesn't pick, but you would like to pick them, but you can't. Psychological torture that would yield ever greater looting thread than this one.
Im fine with instanced loot too. :)
It would reduce the mess when doing maps in a party!
Last edited by Planetsurvival#1516 on Jan 11, 2013, 12:56:32 PM
1. That is where you and a lot of other players differ. As another poster said, its torture to the herd of 15 year olds that will flood this game come OB.
2. Depends on implementation.
3. The core of that paragraph was that us, the players, are responsible for maintaining lists if we so choose. Until they decide to implement there own system that basically segregates their own customers into a list of good and bad, its up to us. Since it has not already been done, chances are a lot of people feel a friends list works well enough.
A list in the game is also against the theme of the game itself. Exile's etc.
"Whether you think you can or you think you can't, you're right!" Henry Ford
Last edited by Jackel6672#4463 on Jan 11, 2013, 1:17:32 PM
I feel it might not be enough for most of the people arguing for instanced though.
It's possible that most people arguing for instanced are simply using that as a placeholder stance. I've been arguing for instanced but a ten second timer would for sure cover me. I just need enough time to deal with the immediate crowd of monsters, then I'm good to go back and loot.
Most games are all about maximizing efficiency. Once Reds have to risk losing something good because they are waiting to pick up an item that they would vendor for some shards they will adjust their play style. I think a 10-15 second timer would be an excellent compromise.
With an extended timer if you see a ranger chilling next to the rare bow you have enough time chose to keep it for yourself; pick it up and give it them, let the timer give it to them, or alt click to clear the timer.
Pros/Cons of each loot type as far as i gathered:
Alt+Left Click or whatever would be used to Quick-Unlock loot.
Spoiler
Infinite VS Instanced VS timed
Infinite:
Pros:
Can see items that may be interesting, non-reciever has to ask reciever of the loot.
Cons:
Opens up for trolling.
Instanced:
Pros:
Cannot be trolled like infinite loot.
Cons:
Players can troll by saying (truthfully or lying) something dropped and refusing to give it to a player.
Timer:
Pros:
Allows for automated Loot unlocks, or destruction of item.
No communication needed, unless item is out of sight.
Cons:
Depending on timer and if loot is destroyed or unlocked and if the item dropped out of sight or was overlooked, players may choose not to *tell other players about certain loot* and to grab it oneself or let it be destroyed.
Last edited by Planetsurvival#1516 on Jan 11, 2013, 1:30:47 PM
3. The core of that paragraph was that us, the players, are responsible for maintaining lists if we so choose. Until they decide to implement there own system that basically segregates their own customers into a list of good and bad, its up to us. Since it has not already been done, chances are a lot of people feel a friends list works well enough.
A list in the game is also against the theme of the game itself. Exile's etc.
Here is the thing, this game is going to be a FTP game, it is going to attract the worst kind of people imaginable. People that their only purpose is to ruin other peoples playing experience, even if they get banned.
As I posted before from games with community made whitelists
Spoiler
"
Dinin wrote:
This reminds me of Warcraft 3 and the Dota TDA league. Because having people leaving/being assholes in Dota was a huge enjoyment killer, players were forced to create a group of their own just to be able to enjoy the game. Players had to have so many ranked games played in Warcraft 3 to get let into the clan and follow certain rules. A whitelist and bots were made to check every game before it started to kick people not in the TDA league. This pretty much left all the public games into only having shitty people and you could rarely get a game where someone didn't leave or purposely ruin the game if you weren't in the league. Fast-forward to now where LoL has recognized the problem of its predecessor and implemented into the game leaver detection and a tribunal system to punish toxic players.
Players were forced to spend hours to develop whitelists and bots just to make a tolerable community for a game. Then if you wanted to host a game you had to download multiple programs and set them up just to play a game. Even then you were still at the whim of the creators of the bots and whitelists just to be able to actually enjoy a game.
This was in like 2006, and the game was completely free and there was 0 competition for MOBA type games at the time. Its now 2013 and there are a lot of other competing ARPG games. Not to mention if some community member managed some work around to the FFA loot problem in public games (a whitelist of some sort) I would much rather donate money to them then the developers of the game.
If someone comes up with a large and good community whitelist, I won't be giving my money to the devs, I would give it to the maker/maintainer of said whitelist for making public games playable for me.
For those who keep saying "loot tension" is the main reason why FFA has to stay. Everyone already gets around loot tension. Every single player that plays solo has no loot tensions. Every player that plays with friends has no loot tensions. Everyone that says "Just make friends and play with them, thats what I do" is avoiding the loot tension completely. The only people that loot tension is forced upon is new players that are not familiar with the game. The same people that the game wants to retain to actually succeed. The only real thing loot tension does is scare away new players, while older and experienced players just use ways to get around it.
Cons:
Depending on timer and if loot is destroyed or unlocked and if the item dropped out of sight or was overlooked, players may choose not to *tell other players about certain loot* and to grab it oneself or let it be destroyed.
This con isn't really a con. Its the players fault for it being overlooked, and if its picked up and the guy is already on the next screen it was never his in the first place.
Whey they don't know wont hurt them.
All the other stuff seems right pro and con wise. Just seems really slow paced and hard to do while fighting monsters. Of course there is voice chat.
"Whether you think you can or you think you can't, you're right!" Henry Ford
Instanced Loot has issues to as it prevents a player with no intention to pick up loot to give it to someone else easily, it adds the step of stopping and chatting: "Hey this sword dropped? want it?" and unlock it with Alt+left Click or whatever.
For random public games, this one I don't see much as a con, since you rarely do this sort of thing with strangers. I pick up the yellows with my name on it, vendor the crap and repeat. I might show off the odd good piece I find, but my team mates don't expect me to give it to them. We're strangers.
For "regular" groups though, they might surely miss this feature. But then, they won't, because regular groups will show off and give any good loot they found to their friends so that the group gets stronger as a whole, whether that loot was instanced to them or not.
Last edited by Thalandor#0885 on Jan 11, 2013, 1:36:19 PM
If someone comes up with a large and good community whitelist, I won't be giving my money to the devs, I would give it to the maker/maintainer of said whitelist for making public games playable for me.
For those who keep saying "loot tension" is the main reason why FFA has to stay. Everyone already gets around loot tension. Every single player that plays solo has no loot tensions. Every player that plays with friends has no loot tensions. Everyone that says "Just make friends and play with them, thats what I do" is avoiding the loot tension completely. The only people that loot tension is forced upon is new players that are not familiar with the game. The same people that the game wants to retain to actually succeed. The only real thing loot tension does is scare away new players, while older and experienced players just use ways to get around it.
This is how i feel too, if someone makes a decent Whitelist id gladly help to by paying them to keep it updated, rather then paying GGG for skins/stash slots/cosmetic items.
What matters to me is having *fun* in PoE and avoiding people i met in LoL and such.... so called communities.
3. The core of that paragraph was that us, the players, are responsible for maintaining lists if we so choose. Until they decide to implement there own system that basically segregates their own customers into a list of good and bad, its up to us. Since it has not already been done, chances are a lot of people feel a friends list works well enough.
A list in the game is also against the theme of the game itself. Exile's etc.
Here is the thing, this game is going to be a FTP game, it is going to attract the worst kind of people imaginable. People that their only purpose is to ruin other peoples playing experience, even if they get banned.
As I posted before from games with community made whitelists
Spoiler
"
Dinin wrote:
This reminds me of Warcraft 3 and the Dota TDA league. Because having people leaving/being assholes in Dota was a huge enjoyment killer, players were forced to create a group of their own just to be able to enjoy the game. Players had to have so many ranked games played in Warcraft 3 to get let into the clan and follow certain rules. A whitelist and bots were made to check every game before it started to kick people not in the TDA league. This pretty much left all the public games into only having shitty people and you could rarely get a game where someone didn't leave or purposely ruin the game if you weren't in the league. Fast-forward to now where LoL has recognized the problem of its predecessor and implemented into the game leaver detection and a tribunal system to punish toxic players.
Players were forced to spend hours to develop whitelists and bots just to make a tolerable community for a game. Then if you wanted to host a game you had to download multiple programs and set them up just to play a game. Even then you were still at the whim of the creators of the bots and whitelists just to be able to actually enjoy a game.
This was in like 2006, and the game was completely free and there was 0 competition for MOBA type games at the time. Its now 2013 and there are a lot of other competing ARPG games. Not to mention if some community member managed some work around to the FFA loot problem in public games (a whitelist of some sort) I would much rather donate money to them then the developers of the game.
If someone comes up with a large and good community whitelist, I won't be giving my money to the devs, I would give it to the maker/maintainer of said whitelist for making public games playable for me.
For those who keep saying "loot tension" is the main reason why FFA has to stay. Everyone already gets around loot tension. Every single player that plays solo has no loot tensions. Every player that plays with friends has no loot tensions. Everyone that says "Just make friends and play with them, thats what I do" is avoiding the loot tension completely. The only people that loot tension is forced upon is new players that are not familiar with the game. The same people that the game wants to retain to actually succeed. The only real thing loot tension does is scare away new players, while older and experienced players just use ways to get around it.
What your saying is "Loot tension is a hurdle you have to jump, which is easier as you make new friends" right? Basically, as you make new friends in the game the game becomes easier?
Your white list is your friends list. If you don't use it, you will play solo since you cannot understand that not everyone has the same agenda as you. New players will meet other new players and make friends. Groups of friends will join pub games and make more friends. This is how these games work. If they don't make friends, they will not add them to their friends list, thus making it harder for said bad people to join games made by people with friends. Slowing their overall progress and making the game more challenging to them.
You can't change a large aspect of a game for a few people per capita that are just out to make your day full of crap.
Its a social aspect of the game, and not a programming one.
"Whether you think you can or you think you can't, you're right!" Henry Ford
