Looting -- The official thread for discussing the loot system. Updated 18th March, 2013.

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wrathmar wrote:

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Leivi wrote:

I dont really like the current System. I play hardcore and like to finish fighting instead of running recklessly into the room to loot. And even if i run towards my loot as soon as it drops im too late sometimes (lost 2 Uniques and countless rares already).

I think instead of increasing the Loot timer you should make loot only Visible to the player it dropped for AS LONG AS THE TIMER RUNS.
So you can get to your Item and its not already swarmed by 5 others player that try to click the s**t out of the item. If the timer runs out the item becomes Visible for every player in the Group. So you always have a little advantage.

This would be a welcome change. I still think the timer should be extended a few seconds...

Indeed it is, but for sure the timer needs to be extended, the way it is right now is so short, it's like there is not a timer at all.

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TheSwampDog wrote:

I see the whole pro-FFA argument as a group of PvP'ers who want to force non-PvPers into their way of playing. I think they have a genuine concern that if competition isn't forced onto others, some players won't do it.

I'm pro-FFA and I have never cared for PVP at all. I just happened to play D2 for years and know that it never stopped me from having fun, from making friends, or from getting items.

I know from playing D3 that instanced loot does NOT provide the same experience, mostly leading to players feeling like they're in their own little world instead of a shared one. IMO this is because the loot experience is a major part of the ARPG genre, and when players don't share that element it severely detracts from the overall multiplayer experience.

Sure, players can occasionally link an item in chat and show something they got, but it isn't the same as everyone in the game having a shot at obtaining it. When all players are aware of all drops players can express interest in items that other party members have picked up, opening the door for generosity/selfishness/trading/etc., and the more that players are encouraged to interact with each other the better. With assigned loot you just get a cumbersome and pace-slowing system of linking items in chat on the off chance that the other player likes the stats.

This is stupid

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Aixius wrote:

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TheSwampDog wrote:

I see the whole pro-FFA argument as a group of PvP'ers who want to force non-PvPers into their way of playing. I think they have a genuine concern that if competition isn't forced onto others, some players won't do it.

I'm pro-FFA and I have never cared for PVP at all. I just happened to play D2 for years and know that it never stopped me from having fun, from making friends, or from getting items.

I know from playing D3 that instanced loot does NOT provide the same experience, mostly leading to players feeling like they're in their own little world instead of a shared one. IMO this is because the loot experience is a major part of the ARPG genre, and when players don't share that element it severely detracts from the overall multiplayer experience.

Sure, players can occasionally link an item in chat and show something they got, but it isn't the same as everyone in the game having a shot at obtaining it. When all players are aware of all drops players can express interest in items that other party members have picked up, opening the door for generosity/selfishness/trading/etc., and the more that players are encouraged to interact with each other the better. With assigned loot you just get a cumbersome and pace-slowing system of linking items in chat on the off chance that the other player likes the stats.

I agree with you 100%; but it's more anti-instanced than a pro-FFA post.

I also like the timer system but I feel it needs to be tweaked a bit to make more players comfortable with playing co-op.

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Aixius wrote:

and when players don't share that element it severely detracts from the overall multiplayer experience.

Maybe for some people. Definitely not everybody

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Aixius wrote:

With assigned loot you just get a cumbersome and pace-slowing system of linking items in chat on the off chance that the other player likes the stats.

Some people might find it cumbersome but what about the portion that doesn't find it cumbersome? What about the people who want to play at a slower pace?

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iamstryker wrote:

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Aixius wrote:

and when players don't share that element it severely detracts from the overall multiplayer experience.

Maybe for some people. Definitely not everybody

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Aixius wrote:

With assigned loot you just get a cumbersome and pace-slowing system of linking items in chat on the off chance that the other player likes the stats.

Some people might find it cumbersome but what about the portion that doesn't find it cumbersome? What about the people who want to play at a slower pace?

yeah all the time i played D3 i never once thought. "Man this loot system is slow and cumbersome I sure wish we had FFA" Thats always been a weak argument. So what do you thinks breaks up the flow of the game more? spending a few seconds linking something you think might be useful or arguing for 20 minutes over a drop? I honestly don't care how the loot system is since i'll only be playing with friends but I wish the pro FFA guys would be honest and just say they like it because they hate the idea they don't have a chance of getting every single good drop. It really is that simple.

The game is designed to be fast paced. If you play it at a slow pace, that's fine and dandy, but you will miss stuff that is "yours" while in a party.

People for instanced loot blame the game for not letting them snail through the levels picking and choosing which loot they want. They feel that no one should have to be held responsible for their actions when it comes to drops. "One for you, one for me etc"

People for non instanced loot don't want the aspect of loosing out on loot that isn't picked up. "One mans trash is another mans treasure" they also plan to utilize the ability to kick players based on past transgressions.

I endorse no timers, full free looting of all drops. D3 has full instanced loot, and in my time playing that I rarely saw people partying because it wasn't necessary to get the loot you wanted. D2 is a prime example of a game that full on looting was what made the game exciting. D2 also had the type of trading system this game has, just with runes instead of orbs.

When the game goes OB, there is going to be a surge of players who will be "hardcore" ninjas, and there will be a surge of players who will be flavor of the month gamers. Then there will be players like me who enjoy the game for what it is and plan to play for as-long as they are able, due to the skill building and passive tree. While they will see a surge of income from both of the top groups, the income will only last for as long as it takes for a new game to catch their attention.

That is the gamer of today, and I hope that the devs make the right decision to not alienate its base clientele and change the looting system, unless it is to remove the timers.

This game was designed to be played at a fast pace, where helping that teammate out might cost you a drop. Everyone else deals with it, due to a large portion of people playing this game not even posting on the forums.

Edit:

I feel that if the pro "lengthened timers, instance guys" really feel the need to have this changed, get a petition running with say a large amount of unique posters to put the petition to use. If a real majority of players want the change, something might be able to come out of it. If not, these topics need to stop. Its been beaten to death and nothing new ever comes out of them.

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flab wrote:

I get the feeling GGG and some players feel ninjaing loot should and could somehow be a legitimate, integral aspect of gameplay and would like it universally enforced because of this.

It does add a more social or competitive aspect, but trying to enforce it seems futile to me and would probably even end up hurting the game.

I probably wouldn't play anything but FFA loot and there definitely are limits and issues to resolve with having options for FFA and instanced loot, but I don't feel people wanting instanced loot should be denied the option.

I feel that if anything changes, it will need to be an absolute change. The fact that these debates go on for so long with very little dev, or even mod intervention shows how beaten this topic is as a whole.

I also hope that, whatever they decide they don't try the meet in the middle option. It will split the player base, and eventually turn this game into much more of a solo game.

aka D3 style which no one seemed to enjoy.

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Jackel6672 wrote:

D3 has full instanced loot, and in my time playing that I rarely saw people partying because it wasn't necessary to get the loot you wanted. D2 is a prime example of a game that full on looting was what made the game exciting. D2 also had the type of trading system this game has, just with runes instead of orbs.

D3 made some stupid mistakes with multiplayer. It actually felt punishing to play with more people, especially in public. Because in public a lot of times you would find people below your skill level and when I was playing that meant that the game was much harder for you at that point than it would be to play it solo. The problems apparently haven't changed much, you can go look at their forums right now and see people asking "Why can't we play monster power in coop?". D3 has too many other issues to try to compare it to this game. I loved the loot system in D3 but hated it in about every other aspect.

Whenever D2 guys post in here they usually say "No I played solo for items and when I played multiplayer it was just for exp". D2 is dominated by pick it bots now. At what point did most people find the loot system exciting? Sounds like D2 had the same problem this game has. People play solo to not have to fight over the drops.

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Jackel6672 wrote:

That is the gamer of today, and I hope that the devs make the right decision to not alienate its base clientele and change the looting system, unless it is to remove the timers.

How would some different looting options alienate its base clientele?

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Jackel6672 wrote:

This game was designed to be played at a fast pace, where helping that teammate out might cost you a drop. Everyone else deals with it, due to a large portion of people playing this game not even posting on the forums.

Does people dealing with it mean that the game wouldn't benefit by more options? I bugs me to think that people are "dealing with" a fairly big aspect of the game. I would like to see the majority of the player base really enjoying all of its systems and not dealing with them. Many times I have seen someone post one time that they want the loot system changed and then not post again. Their opinion is just as valid and important as they people who post many times on the subject.

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Jackel6672 wrote:

If not, these topics need to stop. Its been beaten to death and nothing new ever comes out of them.

I also think the topic should stop but I recognize that it won't. The best case scenerio is that the devs decide one way or another and then when the topic pops up again it can be killed off the answer "This issue is done and decided".