Looting -- The official thread for discussing the loot system. Updated 18th March, 2013.

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Galbors wrote:

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truff215 wrote:

Just don't touch the current system, BUT let the party creator set the pick-up timer at the creation of the party (or while everyone is in town?).

Then party creators have the choice :
set timer to 0 if you want pure FFA
set timer to 999 if you want instanced loot
set timer to 4 if you don't want to change a thing

problem solved.
Could be good if the timer value was shown in the public parties list too.

Very good idead. Would be the easierst way to satisfy everyone. I just want to add that it would be enough (don't know exactly if truff215 wanted to suggest this too) to give the people three otions lets call them "personal looting", "short reserved" and "long reserved" or whatever will sound nice.

My full agreement for that suggestion.

With this function, every kind of player should choose his favorite loot option to play.

In addition, with the possibility to choose the loot function, you have a larger player base!

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Majere wrote:

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Galbors wrote:

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truff215 wrote:

Just don't touch the current system, BUT let the party creator set the pick-up timer at the creation of the party (or while everyone is in town?).

Then party creators have the choice :
set timer to 0 if you want pure FFA
set timer to 999 if you want instanced loot
set timer to 4 if you don't want to change a thing

problem solved.
Could be good if the timer value was shown in the public parties list too.

Very good idead. Would be the easierst way to satisfy everyone. I just want to add that it would be enough (don't know exactly if truff215 wanted to suggest this too) to give the people three otions lets call them "personal looting", "short reserved" and "long reserved" or whatever will sound nice.

My full agreement for that suggestion.

With this function, every kind of player should choose his favorite loot option to play.

In addition, with the possibility to choose the loot function, you have a larger player base!

i don't fully agree on this because if you give the option of 999 seconds this counts as instanced loot but with a major drow back which is the screen will be so filled with loot it will be a nightmare.
instead of 999 make the option for each player to see only his loot with this a much cleaner & manageable loot screen and it will have the exact same effect of 999 seconds....this as an OPTION of course.

Summary (added #13 no loot option):


Settings:
1) Global wise - across all leagues
2) League wise - different league has different looting options
3) Party wise - different party has different looting options


Looting options:
1) Need for Greed (roll between first requester and owner)
2) Extend Timer (set by developers)
3) Extend Timer (set by own player)
4) Free for All
5) Only for Me (not show to public)
6) Only for Me (show to public)
7) Class Points Earn
8) Extend Timer (keep alive in combat)
9) Need for Greed (time limit roll - time limit for requester, and only owner needs to click on need)
10) Extend Timer (set by party leader)
11) Roll between FFA requester (reasonable timer to request for item with indication on participant in roll)
12) MMORPG standard (show to public with timer)
13) No loot or FFA (only currency/gem items?)


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1) Need for Greed (roll between first requester and owner)
Pros:
- Respect the owner / entitle person.
- Maintain FFA, where only first person can roll with the owner
Cons:
- People keep pressing for need, even their inventory is full, and ended up dropping it?
- Take time to implement (both client and server side)
- Remember previous roll winner for points earn in a party
- Those who are far away may not able to get the roll
- Too many popup (too many good items belong to you only) may slow down the game.

2) Extend Timer (set by developers)
Pros:
- You got more time to loot
Cons:
- May still endup in an argument like this, never end.
- Slow down the game as players wait for the time to expire

3) Extend Timer (set by own player)
Pros:
- You can set your timer
Cons:
- Everyone is going to set 99 seconds, and the point is?
- Slow down the game as players wait for the time to expire

4) Free for All
Pros:
- Being more competitive and exciting
(is there more?)
Cons:
- Defeat the purpose of co-op play, reduce party chemistry
- Players stand-still just to wait for the timer, thus, slow the game
- Players looting whatever, inventory being full, then go back to town, thus, slow the game (same as above)

5) Only For Me (not show to public)
Pros:
- Secure items
- No slow down on the game, items can be picked after combat
Cons:
- Wasting items that might be useful for other party members
- Reduce party chemistry, reduce conversation

6) Only For Me (show to public)
Pros:
- Secure items
- Better party chemistry with more conversation in chat (trade, ask for item information, ...)
- No slow down on the game, items can be picked after combat
Cons:
- Other ask for items, may require to go back, and slow the game / wasting item

7) Class Points Earn
Pros:
- Make use of item for the proper class
- Fair to all classes
- Discourage farming character, encourage perfect party (all 6 classes in one party)
Cons:
- Take time to implement
- Problem with the same class on a party
- May not work for rare built

8) Extend Timer (keep alive in combat)
Pros:
- No slow down on the game, items can be picked after combat
- Players can focus on fighting, and encourage team fighting / efficiency
- Maintain FFA option
Cons:
- Requires to wait for owner / whole party to be out of combat
- Implementation time
- Items never expire due to owner wants to keep fighting (with a radius?)
- Too many items that covered the screen before combat is done

9) Need for Greed (Delay roll - roll between requester within a time period, or FFA after)
Pros:
- Everyone has a chance to roll, as you either wait for the timer to expire, or roll with other requests.
- Maintain FFA (once delay timer expired)
- Respect owner / entitle person (anyone click on the item between the timer can roll with the owner)
Cons:
- People keep pressing for need, even their inventory is full, and ended up dropping it?
- Take time to implement (both client and server side)
- Remember previous roll winner for points earn in a party
- Too many popup (too many good items belong to you only) may slow down the game.

10) Extend Timer (set by party leader)
Possibility to set it to infinite ("Only for Me") or to 0 (FFA), with different timer choices in between. Every party can adjust to their optimal balance.
Pros:
- May adjust expectation accordingly
- Add current distance timer on top of party timer
- No more complaints by users (can set according to their likes)
Cons:
- Disagreement on timer settings

11) Roll between FFA requester (reasonable timer to click to mark item on ground to indicate participation in dice roll, optionally influenced by previous player action)
Pros:
- no one need to click need
- no rush for the item (timer may set by party leader)
- show if you are requested for the item (and move on)
Cons:
- implementation time may be long
- abandoned entitle player

12) MMORPG standard (show to public with timer, item will be FFA after 20 seconds/party settings, item will be disappear in 120 seconds)
Pros:
- enough time to loot, either default at 20 seconds, or set by party
- items will disappear to reduce the number of things covering the screen
- allow FFA and sharing with the correct timer
Cons:
- disappear item could be useful, since it takes more than 120 seconds to visit the vendor.
- nothing new, just like other MMORPG

13) No loot or FFA (only currency items and perhaps only few white items)
Pros:
- good for gems or maps grinding, focus on leveling
- no fighting between players, no delay to game
- easier to navigate on map
- auto loot currency items
Cons:
- lack of items for upgrade


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Please let me know if I missed any points here, or mis-represent any points.

Do it the Diablo3 Style: Instanced loot (loot generated per player), goes public upon manual dropping (maybe with a delay of 15 seconds). This would essentially be Option 5

Ive been playing this game for a few weeks. I heard a ton of great chat about it in D3 circles and chose to pay my 25 bucks get my kiwi and start playing. Being an old Diablo and Diablo 2 player, I INSTANTLY loved EVERYTHING about this game UNTIL my witch pushing 150 + rare find and plenty of +quantity lost most of the gear with MY name on it to melee fighters sitting on top of it while I desperately tried to get there in time to grab. This sucks frankly. So I find myself playing alone, farming alone, to ENSURE the items I believe my build has EARNED me BELONG to me. However, this also penalizes me because I don't receive any of the bonuses to drops incurred in parties. So you have people building toons to get larger, better quantities of items and other people building their toons to be more adept at being loot ninjas? Doesn't seem fair to me...If Ive earned it and it has my name on it, I believe it should be in my inventory until I decide to sell it , trade it, or drop it. Im more than happy to share my rare find with party members, I truly hope it helps in the end drop something nice with their name on it. I just cant stand getting there just after all my gold and orange items end up in other peoples coffers. When this game goes open, if the loot system is as is, I will continue to farm alone or perhaps play d3 more often...at least there if Im "grinding gear" what I drop is mine.

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muddymushroom wrote:

Ive been playing this game for a few weeks. I heard a ton of great chat about it in D3 circles and chose to pay my 25 bucks get my kiwi and start playing. Being an old Diablo and Diablo 2 player, I INSTANTLY loved EVERYTHING about this game UNTIL my witch pushing 150 + rare find and plenty of +quantity lost most of the gear with MY name on it to melee fighters sitting on top of it while I desperately tried to get there in time to grab. This sucks frankly. So I find myself playing alone, farming alone, to ENSURE the items I believe my build has EARNED me BELONG to me. However, this also penalizes me because I don't receive any of the bonuses to drops incurred in parties. So you have people building toons to get larger, better quantities of items and other people building their toons to be more adept at being loot ninjas? Doesn't seem fair to me...If Ive earned it and it has my name on it, I believe it should be in my inventory until I decide to sell it , trade it, or drop it. Im more than happy to share my rare find with party members, I truly hope it helps in the end drop something nice with their name on it. I just cant stand getting there just after all my gold and orange items end up in other peoples coffers. When this game goes open, if the loot system is as is, I will continue to farm alone or perhaps play d3 more often...at least there if Im "grinding gear" what I drop is mine.

As a new player maybe you have not yet heard that the loot on the ground is not yours until you pick it up. I know, I don't like it either but that's how it was designed. The names on the items is misleading.

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iamstryker wrote:

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muddymushroom wrote:

Ive been playing this game for a few weeks. I heard a ton of great chat about it in D3 circles and chose to pay my 25 bucks get my kiwi and start playing. Being an old Diablo and Diablo 2 player, I INSTANTLY loved EVERYTHING about this game UNTIL my witch pushing 150 + rare find and plenty of +quantity lost most of the gear with MY name on it to melee fighters sitting on top of it while I desperately tried to get there in time to grab. This sucks frankly. So I find myself playing alone, farming alone, to ENSURE the items I believe my build has EARNED me BELONG to me. However, this also penalizes me because I don't receive any of the bonuses to drops incurred in parties. So you have people building toons to get larger, better quantities of items and other people building their toons to be more adept at being loot ninjas? Doesn't seem fair to me...If Ive earned it and it has my name on it, I believe it should be in my inventory until I decide to sell it , trade it, or drop it. Im more than happy to share my rare find with party members, I truly hope it helps in the end drop something nice with their name on it. I just cant stand getting there just after all my gold and orange items end up in other peoples coffers. When this game goes open, if the loot system is as is, I will continue to farm alone or perhaps play d3 more often...at least there if Im "grinding gear" what I drop is mine.

As a new player maybe you have not yet heard that the loot on the ground is not yours until you pick it up. I know, I don't like it either but that's how it was designed. The names on the items is misleading.

Perhaps, but entitle to something is always something can be argued with. First born is first born, no matter what culture you are in.

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Ettanin wrote:

Do it the Diablo3 Style: Instanced loot (loot generated per player), goes public upon manual dropping (maybe with a delay of 15 seconds). This would essentially be Option 5

Why not option 10?
If you set a time to 0, it becomes FFA.
If you set a time to infinity, it becomes instance loot.

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As a new player maybe you have not yet heard that the loot on the ground is not yours until you pick it up. I know, I don't like it either but that's how it was designed

Im a new player to this game, not to this type of game nor new to the different concepts regarding sharing loot, and while the game may have been designed this way doesn't mean that I can't or won't have an opinion to the contrary. The game is in Beta and previous feedback has led to changes including the timer itself.

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The names on the items is misleading.

Perhaps. The designers stated they wanted a cutthroat experience for the player when it comes to loot. Seems to me a company called Grinding Gear Games would know that Grinding Gear in a party can be beneficial to all. In my experience so far with this game, the way the loot system is setup, it is not. I have had much more luck grinding gear alone vs in a party because the gear I drop is mine and mine alone. In partys for the most part, melee characters walk away with choice gear while I frantically try to get there before they gank it all. Ranged players still have disadvantage that needs to be further addressed. When a mob or boss instantly drops a screen full of items, your rare find, quantity find, some luck and randomness should decide your loot, not whether or not you accidentally clicked on the portal scroll sitting right on top of your unique item in the 1.0 seconds you were allotted to pickup every single one of your rares and uniques. Ive been playing games like this for 20+ years and I have no complaints about this game other than its loot system. Philosophically, I don't disagree with developers views for most part. Practically speaking though, 20 years ago, I was a single dude with time to spare. Now, Ive got a wife, 3 kids and a demanding fulltime job, but i still love these games. Any game or game developer looking for hundreds of hours of my time playing the game and "grinding gear" should make it worth my time or I will look elsewhere...ffa=not worth my time..sorry just way it is...im a gamer and a consumer I respect all of your opinions but my voice counts as much as yours and I hope its heard :)

I agree 1000% with muddymushroom. Though I will put some hours into the game either way, the ability to play public games might as well not be in this game with FFA loot imo.