Looting -- The official thread for discussing the loot system. Updated 18th March, 2013.

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CanHasPants wrote:

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GrimJahk wrote:

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CanHasPants wrote:

Hell, I just thought of something that I would actually participate in.. Two options, all problems resolved.. ?

Pure FFA: Played for loot. As is now, perhaps with re-balanced loot distribution per player if deemed necessary.

Pure PvE: Played for exp. No loot drops, at all. More monsters, more difficulty, enhanced exp rates commensurate to the increased challenge.

Both have their advantages, both generate more tension, players of all varieties have a social experience they can enjoy, and neither would detract from the other.

EDIT: The last point is the most important, as I understand that if everybody played Instanced options, FFA would be dead. As I said before, I'm willing to compromise, but I will not support a change that will appease me at the expense of others.

I don't see this as feasible. You group to get increased EXP then you have to solo the same areas again to get loot while being over leveled thus getting lower drops.

Ranged players still get hosed on FFA loot in any group.

I understand what you're saying, but i disagree. Grouping, as it is, already occupies a minority of (most of) our game play. We solo for a bit, make progress, and join a group for the social experience somewhere in between.

My proposed Pure PvE / No Loot group would offer two things:
1)More challenging, 100% non-PvP gameplay- because the monsters are significantly more difficult for a given area (perhaps even a higher level!), cooperative gameplay is required to succeed. (Ermigerd! Would you look at that, a system that promotes social interraction that doesn't involve ffa loot!)

The experience distribution mechanic would remain the same as with our current timed-ffa groups, the increased exp returns would be a natural consequence of scaling the difficulty. It wouldn't unbalance the game, because in the end you still come out of the group further ahead than when you entered, and can resume solo play in a higher level area. Your concern makes it seem like players would have to go back and rerun the areas they grouped in, in which case yes, they would be under leveled.

2) Extended end game content- because monsters offer greater challenge, and more experience, this group option would extend end game content into later levels by promoting a more fun way to progress, and less extensive grinding. Getting your character to level 80-90 would be less tedious grind, and instead require more rewarding hard work.

Both cases are incentive to participate, and neither detract from the incentive to participate in ffa (for those who already do, anyways). It also provides a social experience for those who do not like pvp loot acquisition, and that is the single most important problem on the table right now. Finding a multiplayer social experience for everybody.

The best part, is that it accomplishes this without asking the developers to sacrifice the integrity of their "vision," which is something I think the ffa crowd can get behind!

Almost equally ingenious as above, is that solo / private group play would become a valid solution for players who's sole concern was loot acquisition, because they too would have a venue for social multiplayer experience!

All in all, it was just a random idea that popped into my head. But the more I consider it's implications, the more I fall in love with the idea, and the more I believe it is the single best solution to the problems laid out on the table.

Edit: I failed to properly address your concern. What I should say is that yes, there may be some incongruity between leveling and progressing without acquiring loot, but I have been playing for 20 levels through ruthless and merciless with the exact same gear. It's not that it's even that good, it's just the only gear I've got with the right combination of colored links for my build. Because of the increased difficulty, progress should be made slower, and when you come out of it to return to solo play, you should not have any problems jumping right back in and finding new gear. If you do, I would suspect it is a problem that would have persisted whether or not you joined a no loot group for a few levels. If that is not the case, then that is a risk/reward you have to take into consideration before joining a pub, no different than what you must consider joining a ffa pub (where many claim that they get no/few drops anyways).

Edit 2: Oh! One more thing I forgot to mention. The proposed system also still creates tension between players, which is the driving motivation behind GGG's "vision" as people call it. The benefit, is that it is a shared tension that comes about through cooperatively overcoming challenges (seriously, the difficulty should be such that no one player could solo in a 6 player party like we can now in the current timed-ffa system). We still get to experience GGG's "vision" while doing so in a manner that doesn't immediately turn some people off from it (those who deplore PvP).