Looting -- The official thread for discussing the loot system. Updated 18th March, 2013.

I believe this design philosophy leads to an asocial game. Asocial online games=not fun to play (For me.) I don't feel a game should punish players for PUGing. Every single time I've done Vaal Overseer in a public party, the party would be 1-3 people until we got to the boss room, then three more would join (As I suspect they are lurking for the opportunity) and just grab the loot.

My proposed solutions:
1. Different server rule sets. I understand the developers vision. Having different rule sets allows their vision and also options for players to have choice.

2. Extend the timer significantly. I cant process information faster than the timer. Boss mob dies, drops 30 pieces of gear, oh crap...there went my yellow.

Question: Are unique items handled in the same manner? (I've never seen one)

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Klick777 wrote:

Here's what this loot system means in real gaming terms. You stop fighting and helping the group in order to pick up your loot, because you don't want it being taken by someone else. Thus grouping is not fun because it's all about loot, screw helping your team member stay alive as long as you get your loot. It's a fail system for any fun aspect, although I understand why it was thought up. Loot should be your own and you shouldn't have to fight over it, in a cut throat league or hardcore mixtures then fine I understand. But for Default this is the biggest failure I've seen so far.

Enable when out of combat is pretty much the best idea, but hard to justify. What if he keeps on killing monster, and the item left there for a while?

Definitely, the timer hurts the game more than help others, since people just rush at the same place and stopped for two seconds for so.

Summary:

Looting options:
1) Need for Greed (roll between first requester and owner)
2) Extend Timer (set by developers)
3) Extend Timer (set by own player)
4) Free for All
5) Only for Me (not show to public)
6) Only for Me (show to public)
7) Class Points Earn
8) Extend Timer (keep alive in combat)
9) Need for Greed (Delay roll - time limit for requester, and only owner needs to click)
10) Extended timer (set by party leader)

Settings:
1) Global - across all leagues
2) League - different league has different looting options
3) Party - different party has different looting options

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1) Need for Greed (roll between first requester and owner)
Pros:
- Respect the owner / entitle person.
- Maintain FFA, where only first person can roll with the owner
Cons:
- People keep pressing for need, even their inventory is full, and ended up dropping it?
- Take time to implement (both client and server side)
- Remember previous roll winner for points earn in a party
- Those who are far away may not able to get the roll
- Too many popup (too many good items belong to you only) may slow down the game.

2) Extend Timer (set by developers)
Pros:
- You got more time to loot
Cons:
- May still endup in an argument like this, never end.
- Slow down the game as players wait for the time to expire

3) Extend Timer (set by own player)
Pros:
- You can set your timer
Cons:
- Everyone is going to set 99 seconds, and the point is?
- Slow down the game as players wait for the time to expire

4) Free for All
Pros:
- Being more competitive and exciting
(is there more?)
Cons:
- Defeat the purpose of co-op play, reduce party chemistry
- Players stand-still just to wait for the timer, thus, slow the game
- Players looting whatever, inventory being full, then go back to town, thus, slow the game (same as above)

5) Only For Me (not show to public)
Pros:
- Secure items
- No slow down on the game, items can be picked after combat
Cons:
- Wasting items that might be useful for other party members
- Reduce party chemistry, reduce conversation

6) Only For Me (show to public)
Pros:
- Secure items
- Better party chemistry with more conversation in chat (trade, ask for item information, ...)
- No slow down on the game, items can be picked after combat
Cons:
- Other ask for items, may require to go back, and slow the game / wasting item

7) Class Points Earn
Pros:
- Make use of item for the proper class
- Fair to all classes
- Discourage farming character, encourage perfect party (all 6 classes in one party)
Cons:
- Take time to implement
- Problem with the same class on a party
- May not work for rare built

8) Extend Timer (keep alive in combat)
Pros:
- No slow down on the game, items can be picked after combat
- Players can focus on fighting, and encourage team fighting / efficiency
- Maintain FFA option
Cons:
- Requires to wait for owner / whole party to be out of combat
- Implementation time
- Items never expire due to owner wants to keep fighting (with a radius?)
- Too many items that covered the screen before combat is done

9) Need for Greed (Delay roll - roll between requester within a time period, or FFA after)
Pros:
- Everyone has a chance to roll, as you either wait for the timer to expire, or roll with other requests.
- Maintain FFA (once delay timer expired)
- Respect owner / entitle person (anyone click on the item between the timer can roll with the owner)
Cons:
- People keep pressing for need, even their inventory is full, and ended up dropping it?
- Take time to implement (both client and server side)
- Remember previous roll winner for points earn in a party
- Too many popup (too many good items belong to you only) may slow down the game.

10) Extended timer (set by party leader)
Possibility to set it to infinite ("Only for Me") or to 0 (FFA), with different timer choices in between. Every party can adjust to their optimal balance.
Pros:
- May adjust expectation accordingly


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Please let me know if I missed any points here.

1) Need for Greed (roll between first requester and owner)
Slow, annoying, requesting is a pain, too much clicking on UI popups. This is not an MMO, an aRPG is too fast paced for an MMO loot system, and there is too much loot.

2) Extend Timer (set by developers)
Diminishes cutthroat feel, therefore no cigar.

3) Extend Timer (set by own player)
See 2.

4) Free for All
Too extreme for many. Players abandon combat. Bad.

5) Only for Me (not show to public)
Ruins player interaction and if you cannot see what drops for other people, you can't envy them either. Reduces the item fever and sharing items. Bad.

6) Only for Me (show to public)
Better than 5 but still ruins the cutthroat feel, so.. no.

7) Class Points Earn
I don't like class specific loot. If I'm playing a templar I may be looking for claws for my next Shadow build. Bad. Tell me if I misunderstood.

8) Extend Timer (keep alive in combat)
Slows the game down, players leave combat in order to stand around next to the timer of another player's item. Bad. Better than 2 and 3 because the player still needs to respond quickly to go pick up his loot after he finishes up combat, or it will get picked up by others.

9) Need for Greed (Delay roll - time limit for requester, and only owner needs to click)
See 1.

Another option:

10) Extended timer (set by party leader)
Possibility to set it to infinite ("Only for Me") or to 0 (FFA), with different timer choices in between. Every party can adjust to their optimal balance (a random party may tend more towards "Only for Me" as there's no trust background, meanwhile a party of close friends might decide for full FFA to speed up the gameplay).

Pros:
- Everyone gets the feeling they are looking for in their party.
- No need to stress about the loot or abandon combat... unless you are looking for that, then you can join a party accordingly.
- No gameplay delay with need/greed popups.

Cons:
- Might not be immediate to implement from the current state of the game.

Almost all public party creators would set it to Only for Me, or infinite timer, out of fear of losing item drops to other players.

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Roenie wrote:

Almost all public party creators would set it to Only for Me, or infinite timer, out of fear of losing item drops to other players.

This says a lot about how most people feel about the current system....

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iamstryker wrote:

This says a lot about how most people feel about the current system....

extreme loss aversion is human nature, but that doesn't mean it's rational or even in our best interests. yeah, the game is about loot and it might seem extremely important to ensure you get your fair share, but as an action rpg, really the most important thing is making it fast paced and adrenaline-filled. any kind of solution involving "fairer" distribution of loot takes away from the atmosphere and excitement of the game. i'd rather lose all kinds of loot than have the game feel like it's just another boring "appease everyone" fest, or compromise the developer's vision.

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Arcis wrote:

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iamstryker wrote:

This says a lot about how most people feel about the current system....

extreme loss aversion is human nature, but that doesn't mean it's rational or even in our best interests. yeah, the game is about loot and it might seem extremely important to ensure you get your fair share, but as an action rpg, really the most important thing is making it fast paced and adrenaline-filled. any kind of solution involving "fairer" distribution of loot takes away from the atmosphere and excitement of the game. i'd rather lose all kinds of loot than have the game feel like it's just another boring "appease everyone" fest, or compromise the developer's vision.

Your comment about the game needing to be fast paced is interesting. So people who play the game slower are playing it wrong? Diablo 3 was instanced and felt very fast paced to me. But I guess thats just an example of someone having a different game experience. How does another loot option affect the atmosphere of the game for you? Is the game atmosphere a good thing for the player who hates the current loot system? Does this oh so great atmosphere even exist for all of the players who only play singleplayer? Please let the developers speak for themselves. I already posted a PM from Chris twice, which shows that the discussion is still open.

I hope GGG find solution to this as currently I never play public multiplayer anymore - after I had a Portal Gem stolen.

The current timers are too fast for me. Being ranger I stand on egde of screen.

I could live with an option that made Gems and Orbs personal so they cannot be stolen.

Race for rare - I can live with it. Doesnt add fun for me, but might work for others.

However, I died once because the tank suddenly ran to get his loot. After trying this FFA+timer system, I do not feel it add to the fun of this game in any way.

I do understand the design. All alone, figting to survice idea, but in reality it simply means few people ever do multiplayer / making public groups.

For an online game, most people doing solo should make the head designer think again about concepts versus the real world. IMHO