Looting -- The official thread for discussing the loot system. Updated 18th March, 2013.

This must be a tough call for GGG. They’re got an incredible game on their hands, I can imagine not wanting to change fundamental mechanics. (And this is seriously a fundamental mechanic.)

I’ll do my best to be brief and not repeat all the great points already posted.

Imagine you’re the type of player who doesn’t want tension over loot. Maybe you just love solving problems cooperatively. Maybe you already have a stressful job and don’t want to come home to more of the same. How excited would you be about PoE?

I see the people most against FFA loot being the type of gamers who would be the least likely to enjoy just playing by themselves. They want cooperation, to solve problems together, to be on a team.

Games that thrive are like ecosystems, they have entirely separate populations of players that feed off each other. You need hardcores, casuals, care-bares, etc.

Given all the great ideas GGG have come up with and integrated into PoE, I know they can come up with a way for players to choose between having the tension and playing truly cooperatively.

PS: (Looks devs straight in the eyes) Don’t try to make this game perfect, try to make it awesome!

"

Zeitgeist9k wrote:

This must be a tough call for GGG. They’re got an incredible game on their hands, I can imagine not wanting to change fundamental mechanics. (And this is seriously a fundamental mechanic.)

I’ll do my best to be brief and not repeat all the great points already posted.

Imagine you’re the type of player who doesn’t want tension over loot. Maybe you just love solving problems cooperatively. Maybe you already have a stressful job and don’t want to come home to more of the same. How excited would you be about PoE?

I see the people most against FFA loot being the type of gamers who would be the least likely to enjoy just playing by themselves. They want cooperation, to solve problems together, to be on a team.

Games that thrive are like ecosystems, they have entirely separate populations of players that feed off each other. You need hardcores, casuals, care-bares, etc.

Given all the great ideas GGG have come up with and integrated into PoE, I know they can come up with a way for players to choose between having the tension and playing truly cooperatively.

PS: (Looks devs straight in the eyes) Don’t try to make this game perfect, try to make it awesome!

If you like FFA loot, i applaud your ability to have logic and reason. If you also want an option for something different, thanks for voicing your opinion. You have addressed the problem that GGG has on their hands of pleasing everyone. And believe me, if they added an option at party creation for long loot timers with the drops being visible to just the person on the timer, they could very easily please everyone.

It is asinine how many "hardcore" players defend FFA and refuse to see that they could have their mode and the rest could have theirs. They do this by calling us carebears, telling us to learn to play, or play with just friends. I find it incredibly rude, and it only adds fuel to the fire.

I loved D2, found D3 boring after a month. The instanced loot in D3 was not at all a contributing factor to that. I avoided D2 public parties and only joined up to kill act bosses while my character was still too weak to solo. I never joined with the expectation of getting my fair share of the loot. This is why I would like a different group loot option at party creation in this game.

I prefer FFA loot. Instanced loot does nothing but slow down the game for me.
I am biased perhaps because I only play with friends and there is no such thing as loot stealing among us.
Either way, if you must add instanced loot, make it a party specific option.

^^^^^^^^^

ok well said Gomen and Zeit

i sling "carebear" around a lot, and that comes from the old days when UO changed and when EQ popularized the "soulbound" idea, next thing ya know there's "consentual duals" and it's just a slippery slope

don't get me wrong, i'm not approving of intentional trolls and griefing (which is where IMHO most of the anti-FFA comes from), but i truly feel that FFA is the best for the game as a whole in the long run

the idea that each side could have there own mode is kinda not really understanding the whole picture i think, as if given a choice between reality or a version where no one dies, anyone would choose reality, it's slanted but inevitably there would be problems too (I feel that D3 has many of these problems, idea they thought would be better for everyone, but instead took away from what made it great to begin with)

anyways, just my 2 cents, glad that GGG is having this conversation at least, it definitely speaks volumes for them as developers that they communicate this well with their playerbase

I thought about it after my post, and had the same thought CY13ERPUNK. Everyone would just choose instanced loot and you’d be on the slippery slope.

It also doesn’t mesh at all with how GGG has handled other player choices, like end game maps. There is no screen where you choose how hard it will be. The ‘everything is a random item’ approach is both very unique and vertically integrated into the the game design. There must be an analogous solution to loot sharing. Random examples:

Modifier to maps that increases the time loot is private.
Modifier to gear that increases the time your loot is private.

In either case, you’re rewarding people for accepting the tension of FFA loot, while giving people the ability to mitigate it for some extra effort. Even feeling like you could modify it might make some people feel better.

For sure, there is a good solution to this.

Cross-posting my two cents on the subject from another thread.

My play-style includes gathering up large groups of enemies and AoE-ing them. I like to take on large and risky groups of enemies like that. I've tried single-target builds, and don't have as much fun picking off enemies one by one. With the current instanced loot system, I have significantly less time to sort through items before they become "up for grabs" than if I were to pick off enemies one by one.

My options are:
A) Abandon my AoE play-style, picking off enemies one by one and checking loot at each kill.
B) Continue my AoE play-style, and lose out on drops because I can't check things fast enough.
C) Continue my AoE play-style, and not play in public groups.

Because I enjoy AoE fighting more than single-target fighting, A would make the game less enjoyable for me. I also do not want to sabotage my character's progression by not keeping up with level-appropriate items, so B is not workable either. This leaves me with C which is unfortunate because it creates the impression that GGG doesn't find AoE fighting as legitimate of a play-style.

I would much prefer, and urge GGG to impliment, option D:

D) Let groups choose between Instanced or FFA loot, or make it a league dependent variable.

Forcing people to play whack-a-mole with the loot if grouping up with strangers does in no way make the game better nor more fun to play. It does not even make the game harder or more hardcore, just more stupid. Heck, I'd love to play with random strangers, but not with such a short timer on "private" loot.

I dont think having a +time on private loot would be a good solution. Playing with others should be rewarding, not punishing...

Each time I play multiplayer I have no trouble grabbing the loot that has been temporarily earmarked for me by the system...and my main character is a ranged Witch.

There's so much stuff dropping in these games that your inventory will be full lightning-quick even if you just try to grab all the stuff marked for you, let alone the stuff reserved for the other players in the game. Rares are nice and all, but my Witch didn't need that rare Estoc I saw earlier and I felt the inv space could be used in a better fashion, so I left it.

The more I read from people that say "I won't play multiplayer" the more I question whether any of them have even tried multiplayer before forming that opinion. It's easier leveling and it's tons of items all the time...I just don't see how anyone who has played multi could claim "Everyone's taking all my stuff! I got nothing!" I had no trouble grabbing the Orbs of Alchemy and Regret in my game earlier today either, and the only way you'll be "swamped, fighting all the enemies on the screen while other players loot" is if you run way ahead of the group and make that happen. Otherwise, you'll be in easy range of the loot if you're with the party.

Summary:

Looting options:
1) Need for Greed (roll between first requester and owner)
2) Extend Timer (set by developers)
3) Extend Timer (set by own player)
4) Free for All
5) Only for Me (not show to public)
6) Only for Me (show to public)
7) Class Points Earn

Settings:
1) Global - across all leagues
2) League - different league has different looting options
3) Party - different party has different looting options

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1) Need for Greed (roll between first requester and owner)
Pros:
- Everyone has a chance to roll, those who want to pass can pass.
Cons:
- People keep pressing for need, even their inventory is full, and ended up dropping it?
- Take time to implement (both client and server side)
- Remember previous roll winner for points earn in a party
- Too many popup (too many good items belong to you) may slow down the game.

2) Extend Timer (set by developers)
Pros:
- You got more time to loot
Cons:
- May still endup in an argument like this, never end.

3) Extend Timer (set by own player)
Pros:
- You can set your timer
Cons:
- Everyone is going to set 99 seconds, and the point is?

4) Free for All
Pros:
- Being more competitive and exciting
(is there more?)
Cons:
- Defeat the purpose of co-op play, reduce party chemistry
- Players stand-still just to wait for the timer, thus, slow the game
- Players looting whatever, inventory being full, then go back to town, thus, slow the game (same as above)

5) Only For Me (not show to public)
Pros:
- Secure items
Cons:
- Wasting items that might be useful for other party members
- Reduce party chemistry, reduce conversation

6) Only For Me (show to public)
Pros:
- Secure items
- Better party chemistry with more conversation in chat (trade, ask for item information, ...)
Cons:
- Other ask for items, may require to go back, and slow the game / wasting item

7) Class Points Earn
Pros:
- Make use of item for the proper class
- Fair to all classes
- Discourage farming character, encourage perfect party (all 6 classes in one party)
Cons:
- Take time to implement
- Problem with the same class on a party
- May not work for rare built

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Please let me know if I missed any points here.

You forgot the con for need/greed that it would really slow down the game to an annoying degree as windows popped up constantly. May work for wow, but certainly not this game.