Looting -- The official thread for discussing the loot system. Updated 18th March, 2013.

Better to have your own personal loot. I'd rather not feel punished for playing with strangers or having to split gear with friends. The only reason people played public games in d2 was 1) Enchants 2) More experience 3) their character couldn't handle the content alone 4) Leechers
5) PK/Duel
Hell, half my time in public games was spent solo because I was only there to gain the additional exp while still collecting all the drops for myself.

Make every character be able to pick up items in a range. You can pick up any items within 10 yards of you (telekensis before patch .08 if you played d2). This takes out the ranged disadvantage. Or you could start with every character having a base pick up range of 1 yard and be able to increase your pick up range via currency items or equipment mods?

Other than that it's a complete free for all, quick draw Clint Eastwood style with everyone being on the same playing field (unless you have latency issues, in which case.... tough luck?).

tl;dr: FFA drops, period.

Why: individualized drops do not promote genuine team-based/party play, it's not the true spirit of a cut-throat style game, and it's just silly from a world perspective to think each player should receive their own drops because they're entitled or it's fair or whatever. Why should each players perception of "game reality" be different, doesn't make a lot of sense.

In *all* the parties I've played (not an exaggeration), the majority (96+%) of folks agree to take only what has their name at drop time. I've also observed a lot of folks have the integrity to say, "hey smith, this item had your name on it" if smith wasn't around when the item dropped. You wouldn't believe how effective this made everyone in combat, knowing that if an item dropped, the other players wouldn't rush over and steal it.

In the few occasions (perhaps 2 players out of a few dozen different games?) we ended up kicking someone, it was because they refused to play by the "party" rules or suggested guidelines. And these parties were RANDOM people that had just met. We actually most of the time end up friending each other and playing again in the future.

GGG: Please keep FFA drops. Individual drops certainly don't encourage players to interact with each other. I'm specifically thinking about how frequently I spoke to other players in that other game compared to in PoE. PoE has been much more social and overall more enjoyable from a co-op playing perspective!

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Porsha wrote:

[...] "Co-operative" by definition means working together. When you join a group to play a game like this, you are working together to finish missions, kill enemies to level up, and find loot.

The thought of looting being "cutthroat" in a "co-op" environment is counter intuitive. This is not "competitive multiplayer".

The gameplay is cut-throat, but that doesn't mean co-op or party players can't work together while finding gear/items. If a team is working together, why would a wand Witch not give up a bad ass bow to the ranger in the group? And vice-verse for a ranger who happened to pick up a wand? And if the witch doesn't just "because", you as a player have a choice to NOT play with that individual.

As mentioned, this is how the majority of parties I've been a part of play. Why keep a rare/unique if it's of no value to you or your character, but will make your team/party stronger as a whole? That, in my opinion, is co-op play...

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Porsha wrote:

That's why I said if a UNIQUE Axe dropped and some Witch in my co-op game grabbed it before I could get there I would be livid and regardless of what anyone else thinks, that WILL ruin co-op for many people.

Why would you play with that witch in the first place, then? Why play with someone who would do this? It's YOUR choice who you play with, right?

The current system may not be perfect, the timers could use an extension or be removed entirely, whatever, but the FFA loot system CAN work, and HAS worked in the past. If it isn't broke, don't fix it. Individual drops are a convenience, it's nice, etc, but where does it stop? Why not make individual monsters, individual spells, individual worlds and disrupt the whole party experience entirely? Why should all the party members see exactly the same monsters or earn the exact same amount of XP? The whole concept just seems silly to me...

^^ But isn't the point of leagues that you can play however you want? If they are making this free to play, it will probably attract a lot of casual players. I'm pretty sure they'd rather have their own loot. Again as many people have recommended that for the normal mode it should be individual loot, but for hardcore or other leagues it can be FFA.

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harmbasi wrote:

^^ But isn't the point of leagues that you can play however you want?

Not sure, I play in the default/normal league at the moment, but hardcore is certainly a league I intend to try in the near the future.

Here's a simpler idea, and maybe someone will see holes in this comparison that I don't (like the whole game is fantasy itself), but think about the scenario in a more realistic first-person sense. ie: You're literally a Wizard/Ranger/Whatever on the ground with a party of other people trying to defeat evil and help the folks of Wraeclast. You and your party are slaying monsters, but everyone is seeing different items drop. That just doesn't make any sense from a "real world" perspective.

Imagine real soldiers in the field. They've been pinned down for some time and are running low on supplies. They decide to rummage through fallen enemies for guns/ammo. How do you explain every solider seeing different guns/ammo/equip on a fallen soldier when compared to the squad member next to them?

Again, just a silly concept to me that doesn't make a lot of sense. Players that seek individualized drops have a sense of entitlement and think they deserve some increased amount of fairness.

^ This guy forgets this is a game, where fairness is entirely possible and in the best interest of the players. As it has been said before, people need more of an incentive to group up than they have now. Competitive looting is counterproductive to coop group play.

Realism in a game with spells and mythical beasts? GTFO.

The only "reason" that I have read so far for FFA loot is because usually people are nice enough to share and its your choice to play with people? So I guess I should not match up with someone that I do not know because its a possibility that the person could steal my items? Why not just make loot seperate so I don't have to worry about it? Again, why does the game need to be cutthroat and what does it really add to the game besides anxiety/frustration?

Edit: To people who think it should be more realistic, lets just remember that its a video game and its main purpose is to be fun for the players. In real life if the guy next to you stole something that belonged to you then you could take the necessary action...(punch him in the face). In this game if someone takes your item and does not want to give it to you then your completely out of luck.

DoomCloud wrote

"The gameplay is cut-throat, but that doesn't mean co-op or party players can't work together while finding gear/items. If a team is working together, why would a wand Witch not give up a bad ass bow to the ranger in the group? And vice-verse for a ranger who happened to pick up a wand? And if the witch doesn't just "because", you as a player have a choice to NOT play with that individual."

I just wanted to point out some issues I have with what you have said in this long post of yours. I don't know about everyone else but when I am playing an ARPG I am looking forward to all good drops even if they are not for the character I am using at the time. I want good items that my current character does not need for two reasons 1) Trading power to get what I do want, 2) I love to collect really good gear for characters that I have not yet made. This is why a lot of people will not want to hand over really good items and why its better to have loot seperate or on a 20+ second long timer to avoid the conflicts.

"As mentioned, this is how the majority of parties I've been a part of play. Why keep a rare/unique if it's of no value to you or your character, but will make your team/party stronger as a whole? That, in my opinion, is co-op play..."

The issues is playing with strangers which needs to be encouraged NOT with playing with friends who we already know will do the right thing.

"The current system may not be perfect, the timers could use an extension or be removed entirely, whatever, but the FFA loot system CAN work, and HAS worked in the past. If it isn't broke, don't fix it. Individual drops are a convenience, it's nice, etc, but where does it stop? Why not make individual monsters, individual spells, individual worlds and disrupt the whole party experience entirely? Why should all the party members see exactly the same monsters or earn the exact same amount of XP? The whole concept just seems silly to me..."

Now your the one who is being silly. individual monsters?? I think the majority of us aren't even asking for completely seperate loot like D3 even though that would be fine to. Just a long enough timer to guarentee that what you earn playing will be yours and not the guy that you just met and don't know what he will do.

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Kirisute_Gomen wrote:

^ This guy forgets this is a game, where fairness is entirely possible and in the best interest of the players.

I realize it's a game, and I certainly agree fairness is entirely possible, but that doesn't mean it's necessary. FFA drops are more challenging which some folks enjoy in a game, a challenge.

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Kirisute_Gomen wrote:

people need more of an incentive to group up than they have now. Competitive looting is counterproductive to coop group play.

Group play returns increased drops and increased XP. Why do people need more incentive, is that not enough? Seems pretty greedy to me. And I'm not suggesting folks play in a "competitive looting" way, I'm suggesting folks play for the interest of the team vs themselves. If you're in a "party" allied with others, doesn't it make sense to do whatever's in the best interest of the party/team?

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Kirisute_Gomen wrote:

Realism in a game with spells and mythical beasts? GTFO.

Yea, I know, but at least the spells and mythical beasts are seen the same by all players and aren't unique to each players view.

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iamstryker wrote:

So I guess I should not match up with someone that I do not know because its a possibility that the person could steal my items?

That's certainly your choice with the current implementation.

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iamstryker wrote:

Why not just make loot seperate so I don't have to worry about it?

Because it introduces another challenge into the game, another option or choice players have. Why would you worry about it in the first place, it's just a game and not worth "worrying" over. If you "worry" about item drops in games, do you also worry about getting hit by a drunk driver whenever you get in a vehicle? Should we have individual streets/roads, too? That to me seems like something to worry about.

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iamstryker wrote:

Again, why does the game need to be cutthroat and what does it really add to the game besides anxiety/frustration?

It doesn't "need" to be, but it adds to the thrill and the challenge involved. Frustration and anxiety over item drops in a game, really?

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iamstryker wrote:

Just a long enough timer to guarentee that what you earn playing will be yours and not the guy that you just met and don't know what he will do.

20 second timer sounds reasonable to me, whatever, just as long as the loot remains FFA.

While I understand this is PoE and not D1/D2, I played D1 in '95 until D2 was released and played D2 up until 1.09 or so. With several level 92+ characters and years of enjoyable game play, I'm unable to recall any frustration or anxiety problems due to item drops, it was just part of the game. The idea of individual item drops for players never crossed my mind while playing. The first I'd heard about such a concept was when reading about D3, which was uninstalled a couple weeks and 2 level 60 characters later. Just don't want to see PoE go the same route, the game is awesome the way it is, the way the developers intended it to be.

Would hate to see WoW/D3 influence plague PoE...

You are simply making pretty lame excuses in my opinion. Just because D3 was trash in general, doesn't mean that taking a few things from it that they did right and doing it in PoE is going to ruin PoE.

Every excuse I have seen people come up with for keeping FFA and bashing individual drops just seems like petty nonsense. This game is awesome so far, and challenging in a good way. The way you can customize your character is leagues ahead of D3. The barter system beats any inflated gold economy out there. There is no way that this game could ever be worse than D3.

However take a look at the active parties open for public. There is always maybe 2? I'm no genius, but I bet this timer FFA loot system is part of the reason it is so low.