You know what happens when your Reflexes turn to Iron?

Words is not a major problem of Iron Reflexes, i think.

It just imbalanced node, and it JUST MUST HAVE if you want to survive on HK. There is no options.

Until we have not some another Fuse or Protector from death blow, playing with pure ER build will still be a gamblin.

IR is prety good but we need something besides armour build.

Hope GGG have some ideas of it.

I wonder how all this applies to partially evasion hybrids - the Duelist.

After the recent patch, I'm going to try a fully hybrid one, That is full Armor+Evasion gear and taking all the hybrid nodes of Leather & Steel clusters. Might take a few armors too, but definitely taking all the life i can.

And ehre I was hoping that the poetry and semantic lessons wouldn't stop! :)

Is your duelist build going to be melee or ranged?

I attempted a melee (sweep and leap slam) and found that you need more armour..... lots more armour to compensate being surrounded while waiting for sweep to register its hits....

I'm trying a dual sword wielder, Dual Strike and Cleave.
Just that this time, im going to see if the hybrid armor/evasion system works well enough to not take Iron Reflexes (and I'm stacking life of course).

"

ransagy wrote:

I'm trying a dual sword wielder, Dual Strike and Cleave.
Just that this time, im going to see if the hybrid armor/evasion system works well enough to not take Iron Reflexes (and I'm stacking life of course).

You'll find it works really well. I had a lvl 74 Duelist that was a true hybrid (no IR), and I had no survivability problems, granted, courtesy of granite flasks. Without granite flasks, there would have been quite a few fights where I would have died.

I don't want to derail this thread too much, but I do hate granite flasks :P. They're the ezmode button of this game, and you pretty much never run out of charges, unless your dps is so low that you can't kill the group in time before you deplete your charges (never happened for me because I had pretty good swords).

If they don't want to remove granite flasks entirely, at least change the mechanic so that it requires skill, like make it last .15 seconds, so you'd have to time it just right to block a big attack / a volley of attacks. As it is now, you just press a number every 4.8 seconds like 6 times in a row and you're invulnerable for half a minute. Then use Warlord's Mark on a few trash mob packs for 100% charge recovery and you're full again before you get to the next nasty pack. This just doesn't seem right, it's so easy and requires no skill. And I'm not even going to ask why they allowed for granite flasks to have +100% increased armor during flask effect T_T.

Dunno, I've been complaining a lot about the game being too easy, I hate to sound like a negative person. I really like this game, I just want to play it for years, and I want others to play it for years, but if the pve is so easy that it becomes mindless facerolling, with no challenge, I'm not sure what kind of scene we'll have in a year or two. Alas, I've derailed this thread completely, sorry! -make granite flasks less OP! :P

I feel like i should address the thread more directly, so here it goes. I REALLY agree with Zakaluka in that there should be either:

1) juicy life nodes(more than 10% per node) accessible PAST the Acrobatics path.

or

2) a passive that gives you 20% more life (which would increase each 8% life node to 9.6%).

I'll leave it up to the pros to decide what would make more sense, but I strongly believe something like this is in order, because when you go acro, you give up so much, and your survivability really depends on having a huge life pool for when that big hit goes through. I'm making a pure evasion, acro, block ranger, so I'm really excited to see how it unfolds. Maybe I'll share my results when I'm lvl 65 or so. Anyway Zaka explains it really well, I just wanted to say I really agree with his idea - exclusive passives past the Acrobatics passives.

http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/53325

We've sort of moved here. My initial proposal has been modified heavily by Z's math, and I've done a few mock-ups in dodgy-dodgy photoshop to see how it goes.

As far as Iron Reflexes is concerned, I have one last accusation: the flavour text.

The flavour text makes it very clear that you're not actually avoiding the blows anymore. You just don't 'fear them'. So in essence, it has nothing to do with reflexes anymore, iron or otherwise.

Bullshit keystone, from top to bottom. I'm done with it.

Acrobatics/Phase Acrobatics is where Evasion's end-game should be, and that's what we're trying to bring about.

One thing I've found lacking is the acknowledgement that GGG understands that it's a legitimate problem and has a future plan to deal with it. It's not atypical for such to be the case, but because of what iron reflexes does and what it represents, I consider it a bigger deal than normal.

It's possible that they don't find it a problem... in which case many of us would have to question their logic, particularly if the other thread plays out in a way that mathematically improves evasion.

I'm still unconvinced however that melee evasion/acrobat is a well supported combat form, and might be a significant culprit.

I posted in the other thread as well, but i guess neither relate to my case - so i'll just address Pictionary's comments:

I feel about Granite flasks the same way i do about Iron Reflexes - They are cheat codes, and poor ones at that.
Just like taking IR basically throws away the dex part of the duelist to the trash (and still makes you overly vulnerable to elemental damage), Relaying on the niche flasks for survival feels wrong to me personally.

I'll just go ahead and keep leveling my current duelist and see what i get.

"

Charan wrote:

"

wiggin wrote:

About the name: in my language we use a pretty similar phrase. It means that you don't panic or react when you don't really have to. You are controlling your reflexes with your will. You don't close eyes when a punch is coming for example. (And not losing your vision may be a real advantage in a combat.) I am pretty sure this is what are they trying to tell us by IRON REFLEXES name of keystone.

About the effect: i have no problem with it.

About evasion: Well... I haven't reallly tried a pure evasion build but I have no problem with making evasion work with ES or armor.

@Iscariot: it takes away all your evasion, you are left with that 5% chance to evade.

edit: I forgot - I am not against those suggestions at all (especially with the bleeding thing), pure evasion could become viable that way.

Iron will is the English equivalent of that, I believe, if any such equivalent exists. Not Iron Reflexes. In English, 'Iron reflexes' makes no sense.

His explanation was pretty spot on to what they are trying to portray with 'Iron Reflexes' imo.

You are taking the word 'iron' too literally. In your context, 'Iron Will' would make even less sense than 'Iron Reflexes'. How can you have an iron will? Unless by will they refer to the document which states how your estate shall be divided upon death.

Will is not a tangible thing so how could it be 'iron'? Even if it were a tangible thing how would turning your will to iron mean that it is easier to control? Iron is not malleable by any sense and would probably make most anything harder to control.

You see where I am going with this?