Things that Last Epoch does better than POE.

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ArtCrusade wrote:

Review-bombing implies a concerted effort to harm a publisher. This isn't that.

That seems a self-defeating claim. If it was just individuals writing their honest thoughts then there's no way you could speak on their behalf like that and know that they were all so earnest.

I completely agree that a lot of people no doubt are just penning their honest thoughts so far. But it's worth noting that the statement "a lot of individuals had a bad experience and wrote a bad review" and the statement "there is review-bombing going on" are not in any way incompatible - they can both be simultaneously true, that's the nature of talking about populations. I mean I read a post on the Steam forum not half an hour ago saying "let's get the reviews to 96% negative" - that isn't reviewing.

I would suggest that 'review-bombing' does not imply the effort is concerted, just parallel in direction, insincere in its 'reviewing' and somewhat destructive or at least vindictive in its intent. While maybe originally there was the idea that this needed to be a guided, top-down campaign, once the notion became popularised the need for a figurehead evaporated because everyone knew they could just maintain it on a diffuse cultural level. The unfortunate reality is that there are enough petty, insecure gamer kids out there with strong-but-poorly-trained senses of justice (and some worse), that the idea of 'punishing' a game studio will appeal to some of them without some influential person telling them to do it, and some of those will, organically, encourage their mates to do it too.

It's a little like the idea of stochastic terrorism but without the high-up influencer - something can be an identifiable, specific, aggressive phenomenon without there needing to be someone holding the reins and directing.

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GusTheCrocodile wrote:

It's a little like the idea of stochastic terrorism but without the high-up influencer - something can be an identifiable, specific, aggressive phenomenon without there needing to be someone holding the reins and directing.

I can agree with what you say. I just see no reason to believe that any stochastic Steam review 'terrorism' is going on.

From personal experience: when Warhammer 40k: Darktide was released I gave it a scathing, negative review for numerous reasons. I check back every once in a while to see if things changed and they haven't, so it remains unchanged. But I'd change it to a positive one if they met the expectations they themselves set, and more importantly, would there be an option to do so, I'd change it to a neutral one.

And that's where the crux of the matter is imo; Steam only allows you to leave a positive or a negative review. If you want to provide feedback on the platform you have to choose one side over the other. If the experience is negative, you are not likely to give a positive review, no?

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ArtCrusade wrote:

From personal experience: when Warhammer 40k: Darktide was released I gave it a scathing, negative review for numerous reasons. I check back every once in a while to see if things changed and they haven't, so it remains unchanged. But I'd change it to a positive one if they met the expectations they themselves set, and more importantly, would there be an option to do so, I'd change it to a neutral one.

I trust that you would, yes. I would not however extrapolate that to the set of gamers.

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ArtCrusade wrote:

And that's where the crux of the matter is imo; Steam only allows you to leave a positive or a negative review. If you want to provide feedback on the platform you have to choose one side over the other. If the experience is negative, you are not likely to give a positive review, no?

Steam's review system is bad, yes. I have spent a lot of time in the past discussing this on the Steam forums before I got sick of the place.

But the overly metric-driven review system would not ever really be a problem if the culture using it was healthy.

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GusTheCrocodile wrote:

I would not however extrapolate that to the set of gamers.

Likely not, no. This is one of the risks of releasing a game that is hyped up these days. Helldivers similarily had server issues and was equally hit with bad reviews. They also receive flak for not offering offline play and requiring kernel-level security that negatively impacts your PC performance apparently.

Not expecting a cultural change in the gaming landscape, but with more and more games releasing like this, I don't think change is likely at all

LE is a fun game. It does do some things better than PoE especially considering that PoE has many more years of development. For example, I like being able to play LE while only clicking the mouse maybe half as often as PoE. Perhaps in 10 years if both games are still around LE might be better in most all ways? For now, I'm happy there's a new fun ARPG to play.

edit: BTW BillClinton48, you were the 42nd President and born in 46. What is the 48?

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Turtledove wrote:

edit: BTW BillClinton48, you were the 42nd President and born in 46. What is the 48?

I like Last epoch as much as the next player, but you have to be delusional to think it does EVERYTHING better.

Personally I like how to play how it feel and how it look way more in Last epoch. I also like their factions system, how loot work how crafting work.

But if you want to make stupid item? Last epoch don't allow it they are all pretty normal ( Which I think isn't a bad thing but im not a poe crafter )

You want big boss? it depend on what you like if its the loterry poe is better at it.

You want to push your map as much as possible poe does it better. Only thing LE as right now is corruption.

Basically the place where LE is weak is content which is easier to fix than all the 50 billions problem I have with poe.

Not played Last Epoch, but has seen they got off to a rough start (and the usual review bombing) due to server issues. However, once that is sorted out.... I hope LE's developers will take care about bugs in a timely fashion. That alone would put them WAY ahead of GGG.

Serious bugs go unfixed for years. League after league goes by, yet many of the same bugs still persist. And new ones crop up in each league, and goes unfixed. After the first few weeks, it's like GGG forgets about it real patches at all, and it's just maintenance mode, with slight fixes mostly centred around mtx.

Hopefully Last Epoch will be different in this regard. I talk about the long terms ofc, we all know about these start-up issues by now.

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Pangaearocks wrote:

Serious bugs go unfixed for years. League after league goes by, yet many of the same bugs still persist. And new ones crop up in each league, and goes unfixed. After the first few weeks, it's like GGG forgets about it real patches at all, and it's just maintenance mode, with slight fixes mostly centred around mtx.

Your PoE account is 1 year old....what bugs have you been experiencing for YEARS?

i will say the no death penalty is a double edged sword. some people like it, some dont.

i play LE casually so i really like not having a death penalty there.

POE is for my masochistic desires where i need to "prove myself" somewhat.

some other PROS that LE has over POE (my opinions)


1. Optional content being truly optional.

WTF do i mean by this? To me optional content is content you can SKIP. the rewards of said content can be gained via other methods. personally this EXCLUDES carry services.

for POE examples, Uber Uber for the purpose of watcher's eye is OPTIONAL content. if you're too weak, farm up currency and buy the eye you want on trade.

maven on the other hand a lot of players argue it's "Optional" and "you dont need" the voidstone. bullshit. quite your yapping. it still gives bonuses to players. you dont need to get to 100, but the extra skill point definitely makes it desirable to get. you might as well say you dont need to get to level 95. or 90. maven and all her invitations are touted as "optional". but you know for sure on 820 tons of people are lining up for free "carry/clear" services.

LE doesnt really have that. at most the empowered timelines are something that you can reasonably clear without a guide. speaking of guides.

2. Less powercreep

For sure you can make the game godsmackingly difficult. but you DONT NEED TO. the toughest bosses in the game can be scaled by the player so that you dont need to be an absolute god in order to tackle.

3. Build flexibility

With less requirement for players to be hyper optimized, players are more free to explore their own builds. This is a beauty that POE has long lost. GGG has forsaken this aspect of the game that i like. creating my own build. doing your own thing. which is why i play GD/ TLI/ LE and even TQ. you dont need a build guide.

after getting my first MB and seeing how much/fast i can earn currency with a build that actually can alc and run or juice maps. i now understand how CRUCIAL it is to have a functioning build in POE. if you're not efficient, you farm SLOWER, you farm weaker content. and its overall a bad time. its better to just follow a starter build to farm up for the character you actually want to play if your build is very gear reliant.

anyone on this forum can argue on this point and say i m wrong. i wont argue with you on that. thats your opinion. this is mine. i've played many arpgs, tougher content limits how viable a build is and effectively prunes build diversity a whole bunch. poe has a lot of tough content that really goes over the top.

4. EASE OF CRAFTING

its so easy. too easy in fact. but i love it.

5. EASE OF PROCURING CRAFTING MATERIALS

in poe i dont craft. i farm. i need to alt spam 1000 times to get a mod i want. then i aug and i hit something that i dont want. how fun is that?

but to begin with, i need 1000 alts. in poe currency can be stingy so stingy in fact that the norm is to not use currency while leveling and only spending them to trade for upgrades.

in LE, you can start crafting EARLY. i can keep upgrading the same pair of movement speed boots for a very long time and i dont feel like i m wasting my currency for doing so.

6. telegraphed attacks

GGG hates breaking immersion so i DONT KNOW WTF is going on sometimes. in LE, i can guess "stay out of the red circle" easily. its "ugly" but efficient. i know what to do almost immediately. i rarely have to second guess myself.

7. Option between trade/SSF economy/drops.