Ethereal Knives

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UristMcDwarfy wrote:

]EK fills a much needed niche for projectile spells that will hit multiple unbunched targets without having to throw on Multi Projectile supports.

I don't understand this one. Ethereal Knives as it is seems exactly like Freezing Pulse but worse in every way. What situation is there which you could use EK where Freezing Pulse would not cover a larger area and deal more damage?

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There's now a spell that does physical damage, which creates a use for all sorts of physical-damage-only supports etc that were previously not useful on any spell. Who doesn't love that?

Which physical damage supports? The only ones I know of specifically say MELEE physical damage.

Shockwave Totem was also added this patch and it does physical spell damage as well, so any cool ideas you come up with for EK typically carry over to ST as well. Don't forget to spread the love.

"Physical damage supports", namely Added Fire support and Hatred aura.

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Strill wrote:

I don't understand this one. Ethereal Knives as it is seems exactly like Freezing Pulse but worse in every way. What situation is there which you could use EK where Freezing Pulse would not cover a larger area and deal more damage?

In situations where there are obstacles (I remember Freezing Pulse being particularly finicky in this way), and situations where physical damage or mostly physical damage is preferable to cold damage. In addition, it is almost certainly better if you don't have a multiple projectile support. Thirdly, EK will still do maximum damage at all ranges, unlike Freezing Pulse (unless there has been a change to FP's mechanics that I am unaware of).

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pneuma wrote:

Shockwave Totem was also added this patch and it does physical spell damage as well, so any cool ideas you come up with for EK typically carry over to ST as well. Don't forget to spread the love.

I was not aware of that, thanks. I'll have to see if I have one... it could be a good replacement for Decoy Totem.

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UristMcDwarfy wrote:

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Strill wrote:

I don't understand this one. Ethereal Knives as it is seems exactly like Freezing Pulse but worse in every way. What situation is there which you could use EK where Freezing Pulse would not cover a larger area and deal more damage?

In situations where there are obstacles (I remember Freezing Pulse being particularly finicky in this way), and situations where physical damage or mostly physical damage is preferable to cold damage. In addition, it is almost certainly better if you don't have a multiple projectile support. Thirdly, EK will still do maximum damage at all ranges, unlike Freezing Pulse (unless there has been a change to FP's mechanics that I am unaware of).

Since when does Freezing Pulse's damage lower at long range? There's nothing to indicate that on the tooltip and I've never heard anyone else mention it.

Furthermore, saying the Ethereal Knives is better if you don't have multiple projectiles means EK's window of effective use is all of what? 5?, 10 levels? Lesser Multiple Projectiles comes pretty early and more than doubles Freezing Pulse's damage at the absolute minimum, but has pretty much no effect on EK.

There are actually several pure 'physical damage increased' passive nodes that do not refer to melee.

Also, when it comes to anything that resists elements, EK will be superior to Freezing Pulse. Absolutely.

I recently had a run in with an elemental-resistant rare necromancer in the prison. The fact that he also cast enfeeble aside, he was pure hell as an elemental caster (I was fire, but freezing pulse would have had the same result). I found myself WISHING I were on my EK witch. She tears through mobs like that in no time.

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Strill wrote:

Since when does Freezing Pulse's damage lower at long range? There's nothing to indicate that on the tooltip and I've never heard anyone else mention it.

It has been that way since I started playing, and may always have been that way. One of my first serious characters was a multi-FP build. It's the reason (besides being able to go farther) that Increased Projectile Speed is nice on FP as well as on EK. The projectile travels faster, meaning it does more damage and has a better chance of freezing at X distance than it would be without the projectile speed.

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Strill wrote:

Furthermore, saying the Ethereal Knives is better if you don't have multiple projectiles means EK's window of effective use is all of what? 5?, 10 levels? Lesser Multiple Projectiles comes pretty early and more than doubles Freezing Pulse's damage at the absolute minimum, but has pretty much no effect on EK.

True, it is available as a quest reward now, whereas it wasn't before... for some characters. It should be available to most players considering using either spell, but this probably isn't as big a concern as the overall damage.

Each of the spells has their own unique advantages in this field. EK has a much higher base damage per projectile, doesn't require a multiplicative decrease from LMP or GMP and in fact can gain a large multiplicative increase from Added Fire Damage and Hatred (mine is currently at 73%) in addition to all the additive increases. FP projectiles can fairly effectively stack damage from all its projectiles in a small area or spread them out for better control. Which has the better total damage? I'm not certain. It'll almost certainly depend on the distance from the caster due to FP's mechanics.

Still think the skill should be renamed. Ethereal is the opposite of physical... *grumble*

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CharanJaydemyr wrote:

There are actually several pure 'physical damage increased' passive nodes that do not refer to melee.

Where are these, BTW? I know there used to be some, in particular a node adjacent to Shadow start location, but I'm having trouble finding one that isn't tied to specific weapons or at least melee damage since 0.9.9.

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CharanJaydemyr wrote:

Still think the skill should be renamed. Ethereal is the opposite of physical... *grumble*

Indeed, THIS skill should be called "Knife Spray" or something.

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VideoGeemer wrote:

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CharanJaydemyr wrote:

Still think the skill should be renamed. Ethereal is the opposite of physical... *grumble*

Indeed, THIS skill should be called "Knife Spray" or something.

So...like a deodorant? Not Axe, but Knife?

Bwahahahahah.